Gun Control and the Police State

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    Free Radical

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Oct 14, 2012
    246
    yOur Nation's Capital
    by Nathan Goodman

    (http://studentsforliberty.org/blog/2015/01/06/gun-control-and-the-police-state/)

    As protests in Ferguson and elsewhere have brought police militarization to the forefront of public debate, some voices suggest that reigning in police militarization requires stricter gun control laws. For example, Matthew Yglesias argues at Vox that “when civilians are well-armed, police have to be as well.” Yglesias claims, “The officer always has to worry that if he doesn’t reach for and use his own gun, the suspect will.” He further contends that the disproportionate rate at which blacks are shot by police means “Young black men pay the price for gun rights.”

    While “officer safety” is the common refrain used to justify police violence and police militarization, this violence and militarization has escalated during a time period when private gun ownership has declined and gun control laws have become more stringent. Daniel Bier notes in The Freeman that “Today, the actual rate of gun ownership is just 34 percent, down from an average of over 52 percent in the 1970s.” Bier further points out that crime is down as well as gun ownership, and therefore “Cops toting .50 caliber machine guns and driving landmine-resistant vehicles cannot be responding to an epidemic of violence, because one simply doesn’t exist.”

    The real causes of police militarization have nothing to do with private gun ownership or rampant violent crime. Instead, police militarization arose from institutional factors, particularly federal funding for law enforcement to purchase military weaponry. Gun control will do nothing to address the institutional problems that plague law enforcement.

    To the contrary, gun control laws require enforcement, and thus provide new justifications for imprisonment and police violence. Currently, gun control laws follow precisely the same patterns we see from other aspects of the police state. Anthony Gregory points out that, “According to the U.S. Sentencing Commission, for Fiscal Year 2011, 49.6% of those sentenced to federal incarceration with a primary offense of firearms violations were black, 20.6% were Hispanic, and only 27.5% were white.” Gun laws send peaceful people to prison for years, and those incarcerated most for firearm offenses are people of color.

    In addition to feeding into the racist system of mass incarceration, gun control laws are used to justify oppressive police tactics. For example, the primary rationale for New York City’s stop and frisk policy is keeping guns off the streets. This program of police harassment is wildly ineffective and racially biased. As the NYCLU reported in 2013, ” Nine out of 10 of people stopped were innocent, meaning they were neither arrested nor ticketed. About 87 percent were black or Latino. White people accounted for only about 10 percent of stops.”

    Unlike violent offenses and property crimes, gun offenses often lack a victim. This means that police enforce gun laws by seeking out offenders rather than responding to reports by victims, and thus a lot of discretion is placed in the hands of police, allowing their biases to strongly influence who they investigate. The consequences of this discretion are starkly illustrated by sting operations carried out by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (ATF). An investigative report in USA Today found that “At least 91% of the people agents have locked up using those stings were racial or ethnic minorities.”

    The plain truth is that gun laws are enforced using the same apparatus of state violence that has waged a disastrous war on drugs, murdered unarmed black men in the streets, and incarcerated people of color on a mass scale. As Dean Spade of the Sylvia Rivera Law Project wrote shortly after the Newtown shooting:

    "When we have a conversation about gun violence that ignores the realities of state violence, it often produces proposals that further marginalize and criminalize people of color, poor people, people with disabilities, immigrants and youth. In Washington State, we’re fighting against a new bill that would create mandatory jail time for youth caught possessing a gun. We know that mandatory jail and prison sentences are part of what has created the massive boom in US imprisonment in recent decades that have devastated communities of color. We know that jailing youth does not make our communities safer, it just damages the lives, health outcomes, and educational opportunities of young people."

    Gun control will not solve the problems of the racist police state and prison state. Rather, gun control laws have been one source of fuel for the fire of state violence. Expanding gun control means expanding the power of police to harass, coerce, and cage.
     

    Rack&Roll

    R.I.P
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 23, 2013
    22,304
    Bunkerville, MD
    If blacks simply possessed guns illegally and didn't use them except for legitimate defense of home and family it would be different. But too many use them them over brainless "he be disrespectin' me" BS issues and acting like lower life forms.

    Black on Black slaughter in major American cities is proof of this infantile thinking.

    See "Ghost Guns" tonight on NATGEO channel tonight at 10
     

    outrider58

    Cold Damp Spaces
    MDS Supporter
    by Nathan Goodman

    (http://studentsforliberty.org/blog/2015/01/06/gun-control-and-the-police-state/)

    As protests in Ferguson and elsewhere have brought police militarization to the forefront of public debate, some voices suggest that reigning in police militarization requires stricter gun control laws. For example, Matthew Yglesias argues at Vox that “when civilians are well-armed, police have to be as well.” Yglesias claims, “The officer always has to worry that if he doesn’t reach for and use his own gun, the suspect will.” He further contends that the disproportionate rate at which blacks are shot by police means “Young black men pay the price for gun rights.”

    While “officer safety” is the common refrain used to justify police violence and police militarization, this violence and militarization has escalated during a time period when private gun ownership has declined and gun control laws have become more stringent. Daniel Bier notes in The Freeman that “Today, the actual rate of gun ownership is just 34 percent, down from an average of over 52 percent in the 1970s.” Bier further points out that crime is down as well as gun ownership, and therefore “Cops toting .50 caliber machine guns and driving landmine-resistant vehicles cannot be responding to an epidemic of violence, because one simply doesn’t exist.”

    The real causes of police militarization have nothing to do with private gun ownership or rampant violent crime. Instead, police militarization arose from institutional factors, particularly federal funding for law enforcement to purchase military weaponry. Gun control will do nothing to address the institutional problems that plague law enforcement.

    To the contrary, gun control laws require enforcement, and thus provide new justifications for imprisonment and police violence. Currently, gun control laws follow precisely the same patterns we see from other aspects of the police state. Anthony Gregory points out that, “According to the U.S. Sentencing Commission, for Fiscal Year 2011, 49.6% of those sentenced to federal incarceration with a primary offense of firearms violations were black, 20.6% were Hispanic, and only 27.5% were white.” Gun laws send peaceful people to prison for years, and those incarcerated most for firearm offenses are people of color.

    In addition to feeding into the racist system of mass incarceration, gun control laws are used to justify oppressive police tactics. For example, the primary rationale for New York City’s stop and frisk policy is keeping guns off the streets. This program of police harassment is wildly ineffective and racially biased. As the NYCLU reported in 2013, ” Nine out of 10 of people stopped were innocent, meaning they were neither arrested nor ticketed. About 87 percent were black or Latino. White people accounted for only about 10 percent of stops.”

    Unlike violent offenses and property crimes, gun offenses often lack a victim. This means that police enforce gun laws by seeking out offenders rather than responding to reports by victims, and thus a lot of discretion is placed in the hands of police, allowing their biases to strongly influence who they investigate. The consequences of this discretion are starkly illustrated by sting operations carried out by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (ATF). An investigative report in USA Today found that “At least 91% of the people agents have locked up using those stings were racial or ethnic minorities.”

    The plain truth is that gun laws are enforced using the same apparatus of state violence that has waged a disastrous war on drugs, murdered unarmed black men in the streets, and incarcerated people of color on a mass scale. As Dean Spade of the Sylvia Rivera Law Project wrote shortly after the Newtown shooting:

    "When we have a conversation about gun violence that ignores the realities of state violence, it often produces proposals that further marginalize and criminalize people of color, poor people, people with disabilities, immigrants and youth. In Washington State, we’re fighting against a new bill that would create mandatory jail time for youth caught possessing a gun. We know that mandatory jail and prison sentences are part of what has created the massive boom in US imprisonment in recent decades that have devastated communities of color. We know that jailing youth does not make our communities safer, it just damages the lives, health outcomes, and educational opportunities of young people."

    Gun control will not solve the problems of the racist police state and prison state. Rather, gun control laws have been one source of fuel for the fire of state violence. Expanding gun control means expanding the power of police to harass, coerce, and cage.

    Bunk!
     

    Bald Fat Guy

    Active Member
    Oct 7, 2014
    418
    I actually tried to follow the line of reasoning in the first post. But there were so many random jumps and internal contradictions, I couldn't begin to make a comment.

    Sounds like someone turned on a tape recorder in a dorm room containing a case of beer and a bag of weed.
     

    clandestine

    AR-15 Savant
    Oct 13, 2008
    37,035
    Elkton, MD
    Forrest Gump famous line comes to mind.

    People like the O.P. are all in love with the idea of anarchy, but fail to realize they are on the bottom of the Alpha scale and would not survive in his imaginary world.
     

    StantonCree

    Watch your beer
    Jan 23, 2011
    23,946
    Forrest Gump famous line comes to mind.

    People like the O.P. are all in love with the idea of anarchy, but fail to realize they are on the bottom of the Alpha scale and would not survive in his imaginary world.

    Remember the pic in the other thread that was entitled, "Preparing for Zombies, can't walk up steps."
     

    Bob A

    όυ φροντισ
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Nov 11, 2009
    31,175
    In the early 1970s, US population was about 205 million. So about 105 million were gun owners.

    By 2014, pop about 317 million. So, about 105 million gun owners.

    But a helluva lot more guns! So we be good. And I'll bet there's a bit more ammo stored up, too.

    Now, jails are pretty full, with a lot of the jail population either the basically insane, who were liberated by JFK's guilt trip about his sister, and whose rights mustn't be violated by making them take their meds, or those folks who preferred to self-medicate with products from the local streetcorner pharmacist.

    I fail to see a racist composition. I admit that some social and ethnic groups might be over-represented relative to the general population, but that was precipitated by President Johnson's Great Society program, designed to destroy the family unit and provide government "walking-around money" to a formerly solidly Republican segment of the population. It worked well, broke the back of the "Solid South", and led to the current less than great society.

    I've interacted with a number of police in my day, of various ethnicities, and I've never been really harassed. No cop ever called me "honky". (Sorry, Mr Ali, I couldn't resist).
     
    Feb 28, 2013
    28,953
    As protests in Ferguson and elsewhere have brought police militarization to the forefront of public debate, some voices suggest that reigning in police militarization requires stricter gun control laws. For example, Matthew Yglesias argues at Vox that “when civilians are well-armed, police have to be as well.” Yglesias claims, “The officer always has to worry that if he doesn’t reach for and use his own gun, the suspect will.” He further contends that the disproportionate rate at which blacks are shot by police means “Young black men pay the price for gun rights.”

    :bs:

    So much fail here.

    Civilians being "well-armed" is NOT in itself a threat to the police, since the VAST majority of those civilians are law abiding gun owners.

    Furthermore, young black men are "paying the price" for their own stupidity, NOT gun rights. If the little hood rats would learn to behave themselves, or more importantly, had parents that were actually worth a shit and would teach them values, that would be a non-issue.

    This is yet another classic case of libtard misplaced blame.:sad20:
     

    Free Radical

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Oct 14, 2012
    246
    yOur Nation's Capital
    Forrest Gump famous line comes to mind.

    People like the O.P. are all in love with the idea of anarchy, but fail to realize they are on the bottom of the Alpha scale and would not survive in his imaginary world.

    Literally any time I post on this forum, you somehow turn this into "HURR DURR, I CAN KICK UR ASS." I'm not sure how much your wife cheats on you that you feel need to spend hours each day on internet braggodocio, but I pity you. Even if this post had anything to do with anarchism, no anarchists romanticize or pine for a Mad Max future. Please erect your straw men elsewhere.


    Civilians being "well-armed" is NOT in itself a threat to the police, since the VAST majority of those civilians are law abiding gun owners.

    Who do you think would enforce the tyranny that 2A is meant to protect against? It's not the liberal politicians. A lot of the conservatives around here acknowledge that politicians are all scoundrels, but somehow their willing henchmen are unconditional friends beyond reproach.

    The Second Amendment was written to enable citizens to kill policemen and soldiers. An armed citizen is a threat to tyranny and to those who would enforce it.
     

    clandestine

    AR-15 Savant
    Oct 13, 2008
    37,035
    Elkton, MD
    Literally any time I post on this forum, you somehow turn this into "HURR DURR, I CAN KICK UR ASS." I'm not sure how much your wife cheats on you that you feel need to spend hours each day on internet braggodocio, but I pity you. Even if this post had anything to do with anarchism, no anarchists romanticize or pine for a Mad Max future. Please erect your straw men elsewhere.



    Who do you think would enforce the tyranny that 2A is meant to protect against? It's not the liberal politicians. A lot of the conservatives around here acknowledge that politicians are all scoundrels, but somehow their willing henchmen are unconditional friends beyond reproach.

    The Second Amendment was written to enable citizens to kill policemen and soldiers. An armed citizen is a threat to tyranny and to those who would enforce it.

    It would be wise to leave my wife out of the conversation. It won't end well.
     

    joppaj

    Sheepdog
    Staff member
    Moderator
    Apr 11, 2008
    46,805
    MD
    The Second Amendment was written to enable citizens to kill policemen and soldiers. An armed citizen is a threat to tyranny and to those who would enforce it.

    We're done here. The thread was already circling the drain before you decided to share your "V for Vendetta" fantasy with us.
     
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