Guns purchase and restocking fee

[rainman73guns]

Good day, I think I have found my dealer. His prices are good and very helpful.
Only one concern though, I am a legal alien who came here on a H1b workers visa and now for the past 2year filed for a change of status. No green card yet due to the backlog and I have a work card now. I have been a resident of Maryland since 2006. The thing I am concern about is the dealers re-stocking fee if I get denied. Its 15%.
Isn't it I am suppose to wait for the 7 days for the approval before I get the gun? So the gun is not in my possession.
I sure hope he waives the restocking fee because I am willing to go through the approval process.

 

[boatbod]

Normally non-immigrant aliens (i.e. H1B) are not eligible to buy firearms unless they also possess a valid hunting permit. However, in your case you have already applied for AOS (adjustment of status) so you are an "intending immigrant" with an A number that you can put on the 4473 and MD forms. In my book that puts you in a fuzzy category that may permit you to be approved at the federal level at least. Once you get your LPR, you are definitely free to buy whatever you want.

 

[novus collectus]

The seven day wait is only for MD regulated guns. If it is a non-regulated firearm, then the check is supposed to be instant and you can walk out the door with the rifle then if you pass the check.

 

[K Train]

maybe buy a non-regulated item first to see if you can get the OK, then if that works pick the regulated item w/ the 7 day wait

 

[SigMatt]

Don't bother going ahead with the purchase. You will be denied.

You are eligible to own firearms if you hold a valid hunting license but you will be limited to long guns in sporting configurations/calibers only. No handguns and likely no black rifles. And the purpose must be for hunting. This exception is so rarely used by non-LPR aliens that I've never encountered anyone doing it nor have the dealers I do regular business with in the entire time they've been open.

Your A# won't be assigned until after you've been approved. You'll get it when you receive your green card. Even then, you'll need to wait a couple months for everything to get updated in the USCIS databases. Trust me on this. I am one of the few people you'll ever meet who has ever bumped into the "hunting exception" and been denied a purchase by NICS because the databases were messed up and didn't show me as an LPR (despite having the green card and a VA CCW in my hand).

Don't even risk it in Maryland. Wait for your green card. Or limit yourself to sporting guns and still expect to get denied.

Matt

 

[mike_in_md]

How a restocking fee is justified is confusing....it never left stock to begin with.

 

[kalister1]

Think of it as an aggravation fee? The piece was taken out of the case and not shown to anyone who could buy it.

 

[novus collectus]

How a restocking fee is justified is confusing....it never left stock to begin with.

But they may lose a potential customer that came and might have bought it during the seven days they thought it was sold.

 

[boatbod]

Your A# won't be assigned until after you've been approved.

The OP says he has EAD (employment authorization document) so his A# is already assigned. In reality the A# is typically assigned when the I-485 application gets entered into USCIS' computer system, but definitely by the time a temp work permit is issued. The issue is whether NICS or MSP run the A# against the USCIS database to check whether the applicant is a legal immigrant, which of course will not be until the I-485 is approved.

 

[SigMatt]

boatbod,

Semantics since the A# is not given to the applicant until the I485 is approved. The paperwork requires the green card in hand to purchase as an LPR, not just the A#. And since the applicant has not yet been approved, the USCIS database check at NICS will return "non-permanent resident" and they will demand the hunting license and ask additional questions before proceeding.

I know this because I've had it happen. Nothing more terrifying than waiting for the troopers to knock on your door because you just failed a NICS check due to bureaucratic foulup.

Matt

 

[boatbod]

Semantics since the A# is not given to the applicant until the I485 is approved.

Semantics yes, but A# is on the EAD card as well. I wasn't aware that you needed a copy of the actual GC for a 4473. I wonder how many dealers know that the temporary I-551 stamp in your passport is equivalent? (Not that one of those has any bearing on this case)

I know this because I've had it happen. Nothing more terrifying than waiting for the troopers to knock on your door because you just failed a NICS check due to bureaucratic foulup.

Ouch! Avoiding that type of problem was one of the reasons I didn't start acquiring firearms until after I'd naturalized.

 

[rainman73guns]

Yes I do have the A# in my work card. I feel I could go either way. I went to the website where they issue the hunting license and it say there you could even do it online. So 2 options
1. check the non immigrant box and show a hunting license as a document or
2. Check "no" for the non immigrant section since I already filed for my adjustment of status 2 years ago and just write there the A# that is provided with the card

Is it that easy to get a "hunting license in Maryland?" need feedback on this one.

Anyway, it all goes back to the question of restocking fee. I'm willing to go with the process, only dont want to spend close to 70 to 80 dollars on a gun that I might not get

 

[novus collectus]

Yes I do have the A# in my work card. I feel I could go either way. I went to the website where they issue the hunting license and it say there you could even do it online. So 2 options
1. check the non immigrant box and show a hunting license as a document or
2. Check "no" for the non immigrant section since I already filed for my adjustment of status 2 years ago and just write there the A# that is provided with the card

Is it that easy to get a "hunting license in Maryland?" need feedback on this one.

Anyway, it all goes back to the question of restocking fee. I'm willing to go with the process, only dont want to spend close to 70 to 80 dollars on a gun that I might not get

A hunting license of any kind in any state will work from what I understand.
In some states you can get a particular hunting license online and without any hunter safety course passed.
In MD I don't think you can get a license online yet, but you can get one hunting license without a hunter safety course in stores where they sell hunting licenses from what I understand. That license is the Regulated Shooting Area Hunting License and costs $6.
http://www.dnr.state.md.us/huntersguide/license.asp

 

[JeepDriver]

But they may lose a potential customer that came and might have bought it during the seven days they thought it was sold.

And all those 4473's need to be kept, and the 77R's need to be files with state police. Any gun transaction, weather it was completed or not, still requires a paper trail, it's not all shreaded.

 

[rainman73guns]

A hunting license of any kind in any state will work from what I understand.
In some states you can get a particular hunting license online and without any hunter safety course passed.
In MD I don't think you can get a license online yet, but you can get one hunting license without a hunter safety course in stores where they sell hunting licenses from what I understand. That license is the Regulated Shooting Area Hunting License and costs $6.
http://www.dnr.state.md.us/huntersguide/license.asp

Yes there is an online transaction where you can buy a hunting license. Good tip in the Regulated shooting area hunting license because it doesnt require a safety class

 

[SigMatt]

rainman,

2. Check "no" for the non immigrant section since I already filed for my adjustment of status 2 years ago and just write there the A# that is provided with the card

I would really advise against this unless you go the hunting license route. Adjustment of status pending is not the same as approval. It is likely the USCIS database will show you as "pending" and not an LPR. In which case, you cannot use the A# on your EAD and say you're a permanent resident alien because that is not true, legally speaking. IANAL but I have plenty of experience dealing with USCIS and NICS. I was on a first-name basis with the Virginia State Police for quite awhile. They knew who I was as did the NICS operators.

If you go this route, you are technically lying on the 4473 and if you're denied (and I'd wager money you will be), I would not want to be answering those questions come your interview with USCIS.

This is Maryland we're talking about too. Do you want to risk a denial under these circumstances and a possible visit by the MSP? Understand that as a potential LPR, we are held to a much higher standard than an average citizen and a firearms violation can result in your application being denied and you being deported. Even as an LPR, that still applies until you naturalize.

If you're two years in, it has to be approved soon. I'd wait and then do it with paperwork clear and behind you.

Matt

 

[bluecollarkid]

mpickering and boatbod - I was wondering how you guys knew so much about the naturalization process. LOL, I was thinking you might be immigration attorneys. Interesting thing is, I had to go through the same bureaucratic bs with the federal gov with my wife since she is an LPR. The tried to deport her one time when we came back from a visit to her parents during her application period because USCIS didn't provide her with a watermarked travel document. Good thing she isn't into guns though - it sounds like a real hassle. I feel for ya.

 

[boatbod]

bluecollarkid, I'm definitely not a lawyer, but both my wife and I went through H1B, LPR & Natz, and somewhere along the way I spent way too much time hanging out on an immigration forum researching the weird & esoteric corners of immi law. Kinda like Novus here...

 

[JeepDriver]

bluecollarkid, I'm definitely not a lawyer, but both my wife and I went through H1B, LPR & Natz, and somewhere along the way I spent way too much time hanging out on an immigration forum researching the weird & esoteric corners of immi law. Kinda like Novus here...

I'll have to remember that if my wife decides to go through the naturalization process !

 

[brownrat]

According to the law, it is unlawful for an alien admitted on a non-immigrant visa to own a firearm(with exceptions).

The case where this 18 USC 922(g)(5)(B) was mentioned elaborately was United States vs ELRAWY.
And it clearly is re-affirmed what is stated in the law on Unlawful acts(Sec 922) for FIREARMS, that '(g)It shall be unlawful for any person - (5) who, being an alien - (B) except as provided in subsection (y)(2), has been admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa (as that term is defined in section 101(a)(26) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1101(a)(26)));

The case: http://bulk.resource.org/courts.gov/c/F3/448/448.F3d.309.04-20123.html

The case clearly notes that a person on Adjustment on status remains on the last admitted visa status until the Adjustment of Status is approved. So there is no ambiguity there. A person even after he has applied for adjustment of status can remain in the country, but for ownership of a gun, he falls back on his visa status.
However, the law clearly states an exception for the person who is an alien that is on a non-immigrant visa - the (y)(2) part:

(y) Provisions Relating to Aliens Admitted Under Nonimmigrant Visas. - (2) Exceptions. - Subsections (d)(5)(B), (g)(5)(B), and (s)(3)(B)(v)(II) do not apply to any alien who has been lawfully admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa, if that
alien is -
(A) admitted to the United States for lawful hunting or sporting purposes or is in possession of a hunting license or permit lawfully issued in the United States;

Link: http://uscode.house.gov/uscode-cgi/fastweb.exe?getdoc+uscview+t17t20+535+12++%28%29%20%20AND%20%28USC%20w%2F10%20%28922%29%29%3ACITE%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20

So, if your licensing authority knows about this, they will issue you a license.
If not, they will reject your application. If so, You might want to bring this section to their notice.