I thought it was a bad idea to sue

[Ab_Normal]

the MSP over the extended wait times.

I thought it would be a PR nightmare and would hurt our cause and people just needed to be patient.

Or have times changed?

 

[Glock30Eric]

Nothing will change. Liberals will praise them for not giving guns out. Liberals will use their tool (media) to steer law-makers, judges, and uneducated voters to support that action.

Wow what a great state we live in! All hail to Obnazi!

NOTE: If you hail to Obnazi for seven times and then you will get your gun by tomorrow!

 

[jtb81100]

Quite a number of things have been dismissed by some as pointless, worthless, a waste of time or money, bad press, etc. But the people who talk about moving to a more gun friendly state are the ones with defeatist attitudes.

 

[Ranchero50]

I think it's just a tragedy that the MSP / ATF won't come out with an instruction on how a gun transfer is supposed to happen with these extended background check timelines. My FFL isn't sure what to put in his bound book once the gun is released without the NTN. As an Indie style dealer who's sells guns as a hobby, he's concerned about the financial / administrative nightmare of an early release without proper guidance.

 

[cmecha]

I think someone with more money then me should sue.

 

[Ab_Normal]

Quite a number of things have been dismissed by some as pointless, worthless, a waste of time or money, bad press, etc. But the people who talk about moving to a more gun friendly state are the ones with defeatist attitudes.

What is the Einstein definition of insanity?

 

[Gambler]

MSI is suing them, I don't think there is a need for a class action suit at this point.

 

[iH8DemLibz]

I brought this up once before.

You are paying X amount of dollars to have X service provided in X amount of days.

The contract has not been fulfilled.

I think a suit is fine at this point.

The lack of caring and the lack of guidance from those who could fix this insanity immediately is unbelievable.

I've tried to keep the choppers on the ground as of late, but I see this as more and more deliberate as time goes by.

This is, of course, just my opinion.

 

[iH8DemLibz]

What is the Einstein definition of insanity?

Filling out a 77R and expecting it back in 7 days!!!

 

[Pmbspyder]

Ultimate "I told you so" thread lol

 

[jtb81100]

What is the Einstein definition of insanity?

I'm not saying expect miracles, I'm saying none of this is ever worthless. It gets our side of the story attention and helps neutralize the opposition by either bringing them to our side or making them care less about banning things. The process may be ineffective, but it is the process that we have.

 

[Ab_Normal]

I'm not saying expect miracles, I'm saying none of this is ever worthless. It gets our side of the story attention and helps neutralize the opposition by either bringing them to our side or making them care less about banning things. The process may be ineffective, but it is the process that we have.

You haven't been in this fight very long have you?

 

[Ab_Normal]

Filling out a 77R and expecting it back in 7 days!!!

Actually they used to get them back in fewer than 7 days but you still had to wait the full 7 days before doing the transfer.

 

[jtb81100]

You haven't been in this fight very long have you?

No I haven't. I've shot off and on since I was 6, but I'm not from a big shooting family. We had a 10/22 and a shotgun around for dealing with varmints around the farm, and I was taught how to safely use them and not to touch them without an adult's permission. Started getting into it more a couple years ago, but didn't know about most of the political stuff and local 2A groups until I found this site last spring. My work schedule and family issues have kept me from going to what events we've had, but I've been writing elected officials, responding to news articles, donating what money I can to 2A groups, talking to anybody that will listen for 5 min, etc since then. I didn't even know that some people COULD get carry permits in the state till last year let alone that there was a lawsuit trying to open that up to more people. All this from somebody who has always had an interest in guns and has gone to 2-3 shows a year for as long as I've been driving. What that says to me is the community as a whole isn't doing enough to bring people in. Anything that lets people know that there is a fight and there are groups to participate in to try to help that fight is a good thing IMO. If rallys/protests aren't the way the organizations want to go, then they need to start advertising on the radio, tv, in the papers, and on social media to get people educated and involved. You can't blame people for not searching out what they don't know about.

 

[Nikon]

^ This. I can't tell you how many gun owners I know who are not even aware they're loosing their rights.

Anything we can do to educate these folks and get them involved is a loss for the other side. The anti-2A crowd count on ignorance and complacency. The politicians and media are just their pawns and they play them well when they don't have anyone arguing against them.

Facts also go a long way. Keeping the political rhetoric and emotion out of the argument helps keep liberal and democratic "fence sitters" on the fence. Making it about 2A and speak to the facts about how it's not even a public safety or, what I'm seeing more lately, a public health issue.

Just my $0.02....

 

[FWPhoto]

^ This. I can't tell you how many gun owners I know who are not even aware they're loosing their rights.

Anything we can do to educate these folks and get them involved is a loss for the other side. The anti-2A crowd count on ignorance and complacency. The politicians and media are just their pawns and they play them well when they don't have anyone arguing against them.

Facts also go a long way. Keeping the political rhetoric and emotion out of the argument helps keep liberal and democratic "fence sitters" on the fence. Making it about 2A and speak to the facts about how it's not even a public safety or, what I'm seeing more lately, a public health issue.

Just my $0.02....

I agree. The FFL's are using the same emotional failed logic as Owe'Malley. They don't want to release for fear or bad behavior and litigation and Owe'Malley is banning them to prevent another kid from being shot. In the meantime, the thugs are getting their guns with no wait, no paper trail, and no taxes. They're only preventing legally qualified citizens from getting guns and that's all. Just as the FFL's could be sued by a family member of a victim for a gun that was released early, they could just as easily get sued if they released after 100+ days and an ND. Folks can and do sue anyone for anything. The ND doesn't matter and the law protects them by placing the burden back on the MSP with the 7 day mandate.

I already said this in another thread but the FFL's are foolishly allowing the MSP to muscle them into being blacklisted by the gun community. The FFL's depend on their customers to buy goods in order to keep their doors open. Gun owners are keeping track of who's supporting their rights and who isn't. If an FFL doesn't support their customer's rights before 10/1, why should the customer support them after 10/1? Will the MSP be there supporting them after 10/1? Yes, the MSP has a duty and the FFL also has the law on their side. We're the sorry fools in the middle. I just think the FFL's should think about that because after 10/1 MD will look like the Sahara as far as gun and ammo sales. They will need their customers and their customers need them now. Everyone seems to be letting subjective fear cloud their objective logic.

BTW...awesome name!!

I think the shenanigans from the MSP could end up hurting both the MSP and the FFL's in the end. We live in a sue happy state with folks that are quick to sue all parties involved. I know everyone wants to side with and protect the FFL's but when it comes down to brass tacks, even the gun community has sue happy folks. The FFL's could end up opening themselves up to litigation by their own customers, by not respecting their rights with the 8th day release, before this is all said and done.

 

[jtb81100]

FW, I think anybody who tries to sue a FFL for not releasing without a NICS number will end up having a hard time finding a new FFL. They have to cover their asses or risk loss of their licenses, fines, possibly even jail time. Expecting them to risk ruining THEIR lives is wrong.

 

[FWPhoto]

FW, I think anybody who tries to sue a FFL for not releasing without a NICS number will end up having a hard time finding a new FFL. They have to cover their asses or risk loss of their licenses, fines, possibly even jail time. Expecting them to risk ruining THEIR lives is wrong.

That may be so but that will not stop sue happy people from trying. Just as they can sue for early release, the same can be said if something happens because they didn't release. They are worried about their rights and their businesses now but seem to have no care about the rights and purchases of their customers. What good is a business and license with no customers to keep the doors open. You can find the posts in all the threads...folks are keeping tabs on who's releasing and who isn't. So, they may protect their business and license due to the fear the MSP will retaliate. Gun owners may also remember which ones ignored the provision in the law when it comes time to buy more ammo and such after 10/1. That's the free market and customers will show support to those that remembered them before 10/1. So I must ask, will it ruin their lives if they have no income after 10/1? This doesn't pertain to me because I already have no intention of buying another firearm or round of ammo in the MD. I wont willingly give them another tax dollar. However, you can skim through many threads here and find the ones that are keeping track. By protecting their business now by disregarding the COMAR and their customers wishes (not even with a waiver that protects the FFL,) they could be hurting their post 10/1 business. The new law alone will be a thorn in their wallets...they don't need gun owners looking past their shop too.

 

[Docster]

Quite a number of things have been dismissed by some as pointless, worthless, a waste of time or money, bad press, etc. But the people who talk about moving to a more gun friendly state are the ones with defeatist attitudes.

Yea, right......

Let's see; stay here in Md and fight for what will likely be years to MAYBE get some little improvements (hell, even Illinois has surpassed us!)

or,

move to PA and instantly lose the battered gun owner syndrome and enjoy some freedoms again......and PA won't tax me to death or any of my retirement income.

 

[FWPhoto]

Yea, right......

Let's see; stay here in Md and fight for what will likely be years to MAYBE get some little improvements (hell, even Illinois has surpassed us!)

or,

move to PA and instantly lose the battered gun owner syndrome and enjoy some freedoms again......and PA won't tax me to death or any of my retirement income.

+1

We're looking at VA. We live only a few miles from the Nice bridge so the hubby wouldn't even have to change jobs.