Internet-only Gun Stores vs. Local Gun Shops

[TylerFirearms]

If the gun stores would stock the guns people want it would eliminate the need for internet orders. For example, I went into a local gun shop here in Montgomery County and asked them to order me a SKKY 9mm. Weeks went by and still no word when it would be in. I got tired of waiting and ordered it myself online and had it shipped to a different gun store. I had to pay a $50 transfer for the gun. Maybe gun shop XYZ didn't think my business was worth the trouble?....who knows.

If I stocked every gun everybody wanted, I would stock every gun in existence... LOL



P.S. we carry SCCY...

 

[traveller]

It is funny. When you were starting out with your cheap transfers, you really rubbed many people the wrong way by favoring the internet vendor business model. Now that you have distributor relationships and a store to maintain, the shoe is on the other foot.

 

[Docster]

I've mentioned this in other threads, but when it comes to buying something, many people live by one creed--cheap. Nothing else matters. The OPs first post summarized things very nicely. If nothing else matters than price, go online then find a local dealer who will do the transfer; then bitch about how much that dealer chargers for the transfer.....

If a buyer has a broader view that includes service, the ability to touch and feel, ask questions, and the like, then the local gun store is the place to go and the price is worth paying. The caveat here is that the local GS is willing to provide the service, answer the questions and treat the customer right.

Those that want nothing but cheap ('where do I get the cheapest ......') need to go online. There's little chance that one can consistently get the CHEAPEST price and the BEST service simultaneously. Some of one is given up for the other. If no service of any kind is needed or wanted, online is the way to go. Just stop bitching when you want your local gun dealer to be the paperwork scut monkey for the transaction and actually charge money for the service. ('who does the cheapest transfer.....')

 

[TylerFirearms]

It is funny. When you were starting out with your cheap transfers, you really rubbed many people the wrong way by favoring the internet vendor business model. Now that you have distributor relationships and a store to maintain, the shoe is on the other foot.

That's about as far from the truth as it gets. I don't favor one model over the other. We had distributor relationships before we even opened.

Consider our introductory transfer fees as a "grand opening" sale....LOL. We thought we could make it work at first, but expenses go up therefore prices go up. Our next sale might be on transfer fees instead of products... LOL

 

[dontpanic]

I guess the question becomes who will do the transfers if all the local shops go out of business? Personally I wonder when people will wake up and realize that all they're doing is transferring all their money to a few companies which in the end results in a few having all the money and everyone else on welfare because there are no jobs other than shipping and a half dozen Internet giants. This race to the bottom has already moved most manufacturing jobs out of the country and given us Walmart. While we blame the politicians for destroying this country, we seem to be okay with empowering an oligarchy in order to save a few bucks.

Well stated. Keeping profits in your community helps everyone. I try to make all my gun purchases local. At a gun show or an IP of this site. Some things are just not stocked so after checking around I buy it on line.

Occasionally I just get too good a deal online and it cannot be matched locally. $50-100 is not worth buying online but $400 is.

No gun shop can carry every part that every gun owner wants. If you take the time and ask around you will be surprised what you can find. You may even learn something talking FTF that you never will clicking on your computer.

 

[TylerFirearms]

I've mentioned this in other threads, but when it comes to buying something, many people live by one creed--cheap. Nothing else matters. The OPs first post summarized things very nicely. If nothing else matters than price, go online then find a local dealer who will do the transfer; then bitch about how much that dealer chargers for the transfer.....

If a buyer has a broader view that includes service, the ability to touch and feel, ask questions, and the like, then the local gun store is the place to go and the price is worth paying. The caveat here is that the local GS is willing to provide the service, answer the questions and treat the customer right.

Those that want nothing but cheap ('where do I get the cheapest ......') need to go online. There's little chance that one can consistently get the CHEAPEST price and the BEST service simultaneously. Some of one is given up for the other. If no service of any kind is needed or wanted, online is the way to go. Just stop bitching when you want your local gun dealer to be the paperwork scut monkey for the transaction and actually charge money for the service. ('who does the cheapest transfer.....')

 

[dontpanic]

I just built a 9mm AR with parts fron The Gun Connection, Freestate, Precision Firearms, 2A Sales and Engage.

The idea to build it and the suppressor came from Duffy's.

The only part purchased online was the C-more ATAC red dot. I found that on ebay, used for less than half price.

Thanks to all for thier help

 

[robmints]

Please don't take this the wrong way, but I'm going to answer your questions for you from a little different perspective.

1. Will an internet-only gun store allow you to touch and feel multiple guns, without you buying anything? 99% of the time I know what I want. Seen it at a friends or at the range.
2. Can you call an internet-only gun store and talk to someone for 45 minutes about which gun would be best for you? Like I say, I usually know what i want. I have been in a lot of area gunstores and many times know more about the item I am looking for than the counter help.
3. Can you call an internet-only gun store and have them explain the process of buying a gun in Maryland? This is widely known and easily found information. This is not added value to a huge percentage of your customers.
4. Can an internet-only gun store provide you with the training you need to get your HQL? Like many, previous purchaser.
5. Does an internet-only gun store have to pay for a Trader’s License in Maryland (a.k.a. “tax on products so they can be on display”)? A little oddly specific. Yes, most all stores have tax and other overhead, even ones on the internet.
6. Does an internet-only gun store have to pay Personal Property Tax in Maryland (to the tune of thousands of $$ each year)? Taxing and business licensing is a back office issue that is different in every state.
7. Does an internet-only gun store have to pay Maryland State Police for every handgun they transfer? Umm, Yes. I pay that when I buy the gun or pay for the out of state transfer.
8. Does an internet-only gun store have to pay knowledgeable sales staff in their storefronts to answer your questions? Yes. I am a fan of a specific brand. A very popular brand but not very well represented around here for some reason. The internet stores I have dealt with are very knowledgable about what they sell. The last 3 long gun transfers I have had done at 2 well respected IPs here, my transfers were the first times they had seen the guns I bought.
9. Does an internet-only gun store have a storefront? Yes, most all do.
10. Do internet-only gun store stock guns? Yes, most do. Some models and specific guns come from distributors like Jerrys and others, just like if I came in and ordered something from you.
11. Do internet-only gun stores have to pay for theft/fire insurance for your guns? Yes. Either they do or I do depending on shipment agreement.
12. Does an internet-only gun stores have to have commercial real estate to operate their business? Yes. All the ones I have dealt with have brick and mortar locations.
13. Will an internet-only gun store walk you through maintenance, safety and operation of your new gun at the point of sale? Like many of your customers, not my first rodeo.
14. If you have questions about your new gun, can you call the internet-only gun store and have an armorer or gunsmith help you? Maybe, but you can't take the gun to them and be shown how to operate it.The best, most knowledgeable people I have found usually represent factory or it's subsidiary.
15. If you have a problem with your new gun, can you take it back to an internet-only gun store to have it fixed? This can be a pain, but problems are usually a factory deal anyway. First you call them to get an RMA, then you ship it back, wait 6 weeks to get it back, and have to pay for shipping.
16. Do internet-only gun stores ship your gun to a local gun store within 2-3 days? Yes, if a stock item. Distributor shipments are store specific, can depend on volume. Not any different than buying from a local brick and mortar.
17. Do internet-only gun stores inspect your gun before transferring it to make sure it functions properly and nothing is broken? If it is a stock item and I asked for inspection or hand picking for a feature, some I have dealt with will, some won't. I'll inspect it at the time of transfer, just like I will do if I order from a local guy and it comes in from their distributor.

 

[Lex Armarum]

Owning and operating a business in the State of Maryland sucks. You can thank Bob Ehrlich for the $300 fee you have to pay simply for the privilege of filing your personal property tax returns so that the State can take more of your hard earned money. IIRC he's the one who stuck a deal with Busch and Miller to raise fees instead of taxes.

Guess what! It's not going to get any better. King Barack, the Phony King of America, raised the tax rate on small business income to 42%. So.. on top of all the fees you have to pay to stay in business (some are deductible) your top marginal tax rate can be as much as ~50%. (42% + Maryland Inc Tax 2-6% + Personal property tax 2% + Misc Taxes/Fees). Nice to fork over all that cash to the government after you've worked so hard to earn it, isn't it? But hey, in his words, "You didn't build that."

Gun stores need to get better at customer service and diversify their sales strategy if their going to survive in this day and age. (Hint: You don't have to let every customer finger your guns; you also have to leverage technology better in order to reduce your overhead and speed up customer service.) In all honesty, if I spoke to my clients the way that some gun store personnel have spoken to me, I wouldn't have any clients. Here's a good illustration from my own perspective:

I'm a value oriented person. Price point is important but reliable, friendly, and trustworthy customer service is MORE IMPORTANT to me than price. I will happily pay a premium on a product to a retailer that provides me with a product I want and doesn't act like its a hassle to deal with me AFTER I've purchased the product or isn't so busy that I have to stand around for an hour and wait for service.

I deal with Cabelas and LL Bean for all of my outdoor gear needs (and even some of my professional clothing needs, ironically) because their customer service is bar-none, the best around. I will happily pay their jacked up prices because I know I'm going to get good quality merchandise from them and, if it should fail for some reason, I only need to call them and they'll make it right. Not only will they make it right, their customer services reps are easy to talk to and work with to find a solution to my problem.

I can honestly say that I've only walked into one gun store (an IP here) and felt welcomed. I'll do business with anyone if they make it easy; I'll loyally work with any business that makes it easy and a pleasant experience.

 

[jpk1md]

Most shops I know are not only brick and mortar but also sell via various online outlets.

 

[randyho]

... or isn't so busy that I have to stand around for an hour and wait for service.

...

I can honestly say that I've only walked into one gun store (an IP here) and felt welcomed. I'll do business with anyone if they make it easy; I'll loyally work with any business that makes it easy and a pleasant experience.

You should stop in at Tyler if you haven't already. Your description above matches me and my experience to a T. And Chuck's place is a breath of fresh air.

 

[Bisleyfan44]

There are some variants to this point also. Every gun I buy online and have transferred in are used, older, discontinued, and/or no-longer-made models. You simply can't walk into any old gun shop and expect to find many of the guns I look for.

Discontinued Ruger SAs, 2nd gen Colt SAAs, older Marlin levers, etc. You have no choice sometimes; waiting for one to just pop up in a shop may result in not EVER finding one.

Now to go in and fondle a new gen4 Glock only to expect the dealer to transfer in one for you from Bud's or GunBroker because it's $20 cheaper is ridiculous and the dealer should feel free to hammer you with a higher transfer fee. I could not muster the gall to even think of trying this. I would be overwhelmingly embarrassed and would fully expect to be thrown out of the shop honestly.

 

[Straightshooter]

Let's not forget that the out of state guys aren't having to pony up for the RAIN TAX which in case you don't know, is a sizable chunk of change on commercial properties in the affected counties in Money land.

 

[iH8DemLibz]

If every gun shop in Maryland put a phirearm phinger phucking jar on the counter, a lot of this time wasting rudeness will cease to exist.

Or qualify the would-be buyer. If they fail the qualifying test, move on to customers who are there to buy.

As a poster above stated, I couldn't imagine myself ever walking into a gun shop and asking them to transfer in a gun they sell.

Best wishes to the shops that are trying to survive.

 

[iH8DemLibz]

Let's not forget that the out of state guys aren't having to pony up for the RAIN TAX which in case you don't know, is a sizable chunk of change on commercial properties in the affected counties in Money land.

Uber Conservative Republican Jim Brochin is leading the way to repeal the Rain Tax.

So.....

 

[BlackBart]

I've mentioned this in other threads, but when it comes to buying something, many people live by one creed--cheap. Nothing else matters. The OPs first post summarized things very nicely. If nothing else matters than price, go online then find a local dealer who will do the transfer; then bitch about how much that dealer chargers for the transfer.....

If a buyer has a broader view that includes service, the ability to touch and feel, ask questions, and the like, then the local gun store is the place to go and the price is worth paying. The caveat here is that the local GS is willing to provide the service, answer the questions and treat the customer right.

Those that want nothing but cheap ('where do I get the cheapest ......') need to go online. There's little chance that one can consistently get the CHEAPEST price and the BEST service simultaneously. Some of one is given up for the other. If no service of any kind is needed or wanted, online is the way to go. Just stop bitching when you want your local gun dealer to be the paperwork scut monkey for the transaction and actually charge money for the service. ('who does the cheapest transfer.....')

Well said, while I am "cheap" out of necessity at times I still favor quality AND service. I'm not going to pick knowledgeable retailer "A" mind and go online and buy. Besides, there is a wealth of knowledge right on this board once one sifts through the BS (most of us are guilty) to get the best right answer out there. Besides, unless it's in a sealed factory box and I know EXACTLY what it is I don't want to order something online if I can help it.

 

[jpo183]

This is a nice thread so I appreciate it OP. This problem is the same thing I see from threads about gun shows. IMO too much "fault" is put on the consumer instead of the seller.

In business you much be able to roll with the punches of change. If you are only making $10 on a product then you better be able to sell a lot of that product.

Just some background, I own two business and do a lot of small biz consulting. The problem with a lot of biz is that they look at rent as part of their cost when they sell a product. This is simply not true. You have variable cost and fixed cost. Variable cost are those that are attributed directly to the sale of that item and are per item. Meaning walk outside on the sidewalk free from all other cost, if there are cost to sell that item, thats a variable cost. Everything else is a fixed cost.

Your rent, fax, internet, etc. Those are fixed costs. They are NOT part of your profit margin per item sale. So stop it.

Brick and mortar have some of the same cost as do online warehouses. Its already been stated but no need to rehash.

The biggest problem with gun shops is that the owners arent really biz guys. They are gun lovers selling a hobby. With the FSA2013 you would think that gun shops would try to supplement new sales with accessories, which from what I have been told have high mark ups.

The other thing I rarely see is an extension of OTHER product types. Examply Gun Shack in Mt Airy also sells archery. They sell a lot of archery. Look at Dicks, Cabelas, etc. They sell a mix of outdoor items.

Maybe part of the problem for many gun shops is they simply do not have the biz skills to compete in a tight profit margin business?

My primary business started as payroll and payroll only. I saw the writing on the wall and positioned my company to start offering other services that were related to payroll. HR, retirement, employee benefits, health care, timekeeping, etc.

Shortly the bigger industries did the same, many many other smaller companies never moved from just payroll. We started in the worse of the recession, and have grown every year because we move with the economy and industry.

As rusty stated, you need to move with the times and start re examine your biz. A smart biz model may be to close up shop. Nothing wrong with it. I also hear a lot of shops blaming the FSA 2013, which I completely understand, but why not sell around it? Joe Bobs sells rebuild kits for mags, etc. Why arent you doing things like that?

The other problem is that it cost money to have good inventory. I see the guys that are making money carry good inventory. Many shops I walk into have very little. They arent even stocking ammo in some cases.

Dont get me wrong I appreciate LGS, and have purchased every gun I own from one. But I foresee things to change soon.

Thanks OP

 

[jpo183]

I wanted to add one more thing about margins and pricing. How can an internet store compete with you when you can mark up the gun for their price + ffl transfer + shipping and still be the same price as them.

You should easily have a 30-40$ more mark up and still be even with internet stores.

 

[Lex Armarum]

Just remember this phrase and it will set you free:

YOU are the architect of your own imprisonment.

All of the issues highlighted in the OP are easily fixed with some policy and business process changes.

 

[WheelHead]

I wanted to add one more thing about margins and pricing. How can an internet store compete with you when you can mark up the gun for their price + ffl transfer + shipping and still be the same price as them.

You should easily have a 30-40$ more mark up and still be even with internet stores.

Your posts are right on. I've worked with business that when I come on board they are attempting to sell products that the market has passed on and they are stuck with them in inventory. Inventory flow is tough to anticipate especially for the fickle firearms crowd. A dealer might buy one or two of a firearm. Then you have an internet warehouse that is going to buy 50 or more of that same item. Obviously the price isn't going to be the same. Future planning would also show that the younger future customer is going to shop online from a smart phone or tablet or who knows what by the next generation of firearms owners. I hope that LSG are still around in the future but that will depend on the business itself.