Kies M4 Delta.22 with Spikes lower Review

[Poonbag]

Hi guys, and thanks for having me.

First off to Mr. Poon, I would like to publicly say, that i am sorry about the percieved rudeness of my first email to you, that was not my intent in any way at all, It was poor wording, and I should know better. We (I) Strive to give the best customer service in the industry, and I failed in a major way. I appologize for that.

We do run a mag through every upper that leaves our shop (in rimfire and centerfire)
in an effort to catch anything like what you have described so that we can take care of it before it leaves. This includes any tuning needs on the centerfire gas blocks.

Now on to the topic at hand, and i know i sent this to you in an email but for all the other folks out there who may have similar questions.

Lube for break in- We use clenzoil at the shop and have found it to be fantastic it is a thicker oil, and it really runs out nicely in any gun in our opinion. We used to use remoil in the past but it burns off so fast and really does not do what we need it to do. It can be tricky to find clenzoil, but if memory serves i have seen it at the likes of cabellas or gander mountain.

Wax build up / wax lubes used on different rimfire ammo, I have found in any of my higher end semi auto 22 rifles that have tighter chambers, that certain brands using different types of lube and affect reliable cycling, and have found that federal rimfire is generally the best common ammo out there.

We have had one rimfire upper upper come back to us and it had a slightly tight chamber in it which caused some failure to feeds after about 75 rounds without cleaning, we have fixed that as a warranty issue.

We stand behind our work all the way and do what needs to be done to make sure the customer is happy.

Again, thanks for having me here

Thanks for the information! I am looking to get some clenzoil. I have some break free. It is a bit thicker than the Remoil. I figured since I have that already I might try that for the remainder of the break in.

 

[Poonbag]

UPDATE:::

So I went to the range tonight and shot another 200 rounds or so through it, Same thing was happening though. This time I lubed it up heavily (SOAKED) with remoil (which burned off after the first two shots) and Break free (Which lasted about a mag). It did shoot a little bit better but still had at least one jam just about every magazine. Once I got my new sights sighted in it seemed to be very accurate though. Afterwards I checked for rubbing on the bolt catch but there was none. There are two different spots on the Hammer where rubbing is occurring though. One is at the top and one is about half way down the hammer. I guess the spring in the hammer could be a bit to strong. I just dont know. I guess I will get some clenzoil and try that. TLL used break free for his and it was working ok. Still had some jamming issues but I believe his is still in the break in period too.

 

[boatbod]

Afterwards I checked for rubbing on the bolt catch but there was none. There are two different spots on the Hammer where rubbing is occurring though. One is at the top and one is about half way down the hammer.

Photos?

 

[Kies_Firearms]

if you could also post some pics of how it is jamming that would be good to. Thanks Travis

 

[Poonbag]

Photos?

There is wear on the tip of the bolt where it comes in contact with the hammer to reset it. this part is angled but isnt a straight angle, its kind of off. ( I cant even describe it. Maybe I can get a picture of it if that could cause the issue)

Here is the hammer and there are two spots that show wear; one at the top of the picture (bottom of the hammer closer to the spring which is completely across) and a dot towards the top of the hammer in the center where it comes in contact with the firing pin.

if you could also post some pics of how it is jamming that would be good to. Thanks Travis

I dont have pictures of it jamming, because I only get to the range once, maybe twice a month it will be a little while before I can get pics of it jamming exactly.

Here^ you can see the uneven wear from the inclined part on the bolt seeming the be crooked. On the left is more wear than the right side of it.

 

[WSM]

Hi guys, and thanks for having me.

First off to Mr. Poon, I would like to publicly say, that i am sorry about the percieved rudeness of my first email to you, that was not my intent in any way at all, It was poor wording, and I should know better. We (I) Strive to give the best customer service in the industry, and I failed in a major way. I appologize for that.

We do run a mag through every upper that leaves our shop (in rimfire and centerfire)
in an effort to catch anything like what you have described so that we can take care of it before it leaves. This includes any tuning needs on the centerfire gas blocks.

Now on to the topic at hand, and i know i sent this to you in an email but for all the other folks out there who may have similar questions.

Lube for break in- We use clenzoil at the shop and have found it to be fantastic it is a thicker oil, and it really runs out nicely in any gun in our opinion. We used to use remoil in the past but it burns off so fast and really does not do what we need it to do. It can be tricky to find clenzoil, but if memory serves i have seen it at the likes of cabellas or gander mountain.

Wax build up / wax lubes used on different rimfire ammo, I have found in any of my higher end semi auto 22 rifles that have tighter chambers, that certain brands using different types of lube and affect reliable cycling, and have found that federal rimfire is generally the best common ammo out there.

We have had one rimfire upper upper come back to us and it had a slightly tight chamber in it which caused some failure to feeds after about 75 rounds without cleaning, we have fixed that as a warranty issue.

We stand behind our work all the way and do what needs to be done to make sure the customer is happy.

Again, thanks for having me here

These types of responses from manufacturers and vendors mean a lot to us. Thanks for the reply and helping to instill confidence in your product.

To the OP. It's a sweet looking upper. Good luck getting it running right. I've learned not to expect a whole lot from any auto-loading, rimfire weapon.

 

[Poonbag]

These types of responses from manufacturers and vendors mean a lot to us. Thanks for the reply and helping to instill confidence in your product.

To the OP. It's a sweet looking upper. Good luck getting it running right. I've learned not to expect a whole lot from any auto-loading, rimfire weapon.

X2

My ruger MKIII was having feed issues when I first got it, that issue was the feeding ramp wasnt put in at enough of an angle. I had a gunsmith look at it and he was able to replace the ramp and it has been perfect ever sense.

 

[boatbod]

I have a couple of thoughts:

i. Checked the bolt rails for straightness and any signs of uneven wear. If they aren't perfectly flat the bolt may rub on the high/low spots and will show up as a shiny area.

ii. The wear spot on the rear chamfer of the bolt is mostly normal, but it wouldn't hurt to remove any sharp edges and polish it up a bit.

 

[Poonbag]

I have a couple of thoughts:

i. Checked the bolt rails for straightness and any signs of uneven wear. If they aren't perfectly flat the bolt may rub on the high/low spots and will show up as a shiny area.

ii. The wear spot on the rear chamfer of the bolt is mostly normal, but it wouldn't hurt to remove any sharp edges and polish it up a bit.

the bolt rails seem to be straight. I am really baffled now.

 

[BradMacc82]

That type of wear on the hammer is pretty common in AR type weapons, all 3 of my trigger's show that type of wear, especially after they get used a bit. It's nothing to worry about.

The angle on the rear of your BCG seems to be a pretty standard thing, I've looked at all my 5.56 BCG's and to some extent that rear area seems to have that angle in all of them, possibly designed to be that way...not 100% sure though.

If you can't find clenzoil and don't want to pony up for the SLiP 2000 E.W.L., a cheaper alternative is a light coat of 5w30 synthetic oil, it's going to trap a li'l more crud..., but it won't burn off anywhere near as easily as the Rem-Oil and Break-free.

Get it thru the break-in process first, if you still have issues, then get ahold of Kies.

 

[Kies_Firearms]

I have to second what the above poster says, in a pinch mobile one (or any light weight synthetic) can work wonders.

Is there a way that you can replicate what the jam looks like (in a safe way of course)?

Thanks
Travis

 

[tzoid]

This is crazy...

No clue what a Kies .22 upper costs but my S&W M&P 15-22 complete rifle. ( 400 bucks for the MOE Version ) eats everything but shitty Winchester ammo.

I would ask for a refund and stop dicking around with it.... If the Fing thing is that picky it takes a gunsmith to tell you to try different lube to make it cycle reliable I think they used Lube on you when they sold ya the upper.

 

[BradMacc82]

tzoid - Normally I'd agree with you 100% there, but it's a semi-automatic .22, that hasn't even been fully broken in yet. Even the manufacturer has said that during the break-in it's going to be 'touchy'.

I don't own a Kies upper myself, but when the maker tells you, expect some 'issues' for a set amount of break-in time, I'd give them the benefit of the doubt.

If nothing else it shows good form on their behalf for letting customer's know ahead of time that it can be touch and go during the break-in.

 

[Poonbag]

Okay I got some hoppes elite gun oil that has a much Higher viscosity than the remoil. I also Got some S&W gun oil but that still seems pretty thin. I will try this next and see how it does. Then If I have to move up I will get the stuff that seems more like motor oil.

 

[JoeBobOutfitters.com]

I didn't see it mentioned above, but have you swapped the upper onto a completely different lower to test it out as well? Not saying that's the problem, but would rule that out at least in case there is something slightly out of spec causing some drag on the bolt. That "pair" wasn't test fired before it left the manufacturer, since it was only bought as an upper.

 

[Poonbag]

I didn't see it mentioned above, but have you swapped the upper onto a completely different lower to test it out as well? Not saying that's the problem, but would rule that out at least in case there is something slightly out of spec causing some drag on the bolt. That "pair" wasn't test fired before it left the manufacturer, since it was only bought as an upper.

Travis from Kies wrote on here "We do run a mag through every upper that leaves our shop (in rimfire and centerfire)
in an effort to catch anything like what you have described so that we can take care of it before it leaves. This includes any tuning needs on the centerfire gas blocks."

Unfortunately I dont have another lower to try it on otherwise I would.

 

[JoeBobOutfitters.com]

Travis from Kies wrote on here "We do run a mag through every upper that leaves our shop (in rimfire and centerfire)
in an effort to catch anything like what you have described so that we can take care of it before it leaves. This includes any tuning needs on the centerfire gas blocks."

Unfortunately I dont have another lower to try it on otherwise I would.

Surely someone else in your area has an AR or at the range? I would try to swap them around. It would help isolate an issue such as an out of spec 223 bolt catch, etc.

 

[Kies_Firearms]

I would really like to see (in a photo) what type of "jam" he is talking about, that way we could try and diagnose it.

 

[Poonbag]

I would really like to see (in a photo) what type of "jam" he is talking about, that way we could try and diagnose it.

sure thing when I can get back to the range. Or I can simulate it with a live round if you would prefer. Not very safe because it bends the crap out of the casing and rim.

 

[Poonbag]

they jam with empty casings.

These are the best I can do right now. The other jams are vertical getting jammed in a notch in the bolt and requiring me to take the upper off of the lower and pull the bolt out to get the casing out.