Kies M4 Delta.22 with Spikes lower Review

[Kies_Firearms]

ok, this type of jam is due to a slow moving bolt, this can be due to underpowered (rare on our uppers so i doubt that is the problem) ammo, the bolt dragging on something such as bolt catch or hammer with an overly strong hammer spring, or improper break in of the upper.

If you like you can send us in your complete rifle and we will have a look at it, but i do need it with the lower you use, that way we can make sure it runs right when you get it back, rather then some surprise issue in the lower.

 

[Kies_Firearms]

by the way, how do you like the rail?

 

[Poonbag]

by the way, how do you like the rail?

I love the rails. That was why I got this version over the other versions. I am going to try it with this other oil I got to see how it does. This is such a hassle. If it is the bolt catch there should be a disclaimer or something on the product that says may not fit with all bolt catch's. I could have gone with a mp15-22 for this price and not have had any trouble.

 

[TLL]

Hey, poon , I will swap upper/lower with you and we can get some pics of the jams too. Next week would be good if you dont shoot sooner. Tim

 

[Poonbag]

Hey, poon , I will swap upper/lower with you and we can get some pics of the jams too. Next week would be good if you dont shoot sooner. Tim

Sounds good to me. Just not tuesday or wednesday. I get off at 5:30 everyday.

 

[NateTheShake]

My contribution to this thread: I literally "LOL'ed" (or laughed out loud) at a greeting that started with

First off to Mr. Poon,

Net-handles are hilarious. "We are looking for a great warrior that goes by the name Loves2Spooge."

On a more serious note remember MEAL (magazine, extractor, ammo, lubrication) when diagnosing any frequent failures to cycle.

Try to eliminate all of those variables before blaming the rifle itself. Magazines are your most common source of failure in any auto-loading firearm, try several different mags to eliminate any possible defective mags. Extractors can be field tested by loading a magazine (with blanks or snap caps if not on a range or somewhere with a safe backstop) and cycling the rounds through the weapon manually. Obviously observe all safe weapon handling rules, load a magazine into the weapon, and fully manually cycle the rounds through the weapon. Alternate between quick and slow cycling to try to re-create the failure. You should be able to figure out if the extractor is to blame or if the weapon isn't cycling quick enough (which is usually traced to...) Ammunition can be a factor so try different loads to eliminate the possibility of a bad batch or just an underpowered load. Lubrication can be, but rarely is, a source of immediate failure. Try different types of lubrication, but keep in mind a weapon system should be capable of functioning completely "dry" (this is not good for long-term durability, but it will eliminate the possibility that your particular lube is gumming up the parts.) Find a lube that keeps everything protected but doesn't gunk up the internals.

I'm sure none of this is new to a lot of guys here and probably not the OP, but it's my go-to first step for diagnosing frequent jams. More often than not you will find the weapon itself is completely in-spec and there is some little issue causing the jams. During the process of eliminating those four variables you will usually come across any other issues and be able to diagnose them further.

In this particular case I believe the issue could be a heavy hammer spring. Basically the bolt is slowing down too much when it resets the hammer and does not fully cycle the weapon. I have had similar jams in my Spikes Tactical .22LR upper when using subsonic ammo and no suppressor. Swapping to a lighter spring assembly cleared it right up without causing weak primer strikes.

 

[Poonbag]

My contribution to this thread: I literally "LOL'ed" (or laughed out loud) at a greeting that started with



Net-handles are hilarious. "We are looking for a great warrior that goes by the name Loves2Spooge."

On a more serious note remember MEAL (magazine, extractor, ammo, lubrication) when diagnosing any frequent failures to cycle.

Try to eliminate all of those variables before blaming the rifle itself. Magazines are your most common source of failure in any auto-loading firearm, try several different mags to eliminate any possible defective mags. Extractors can be field tested by loading a magazine (with blanks or snap caps if not on a range or somewhere with a safe backstop) and cycling the rounds through the weapon manually. Obviously observe all safe weapon handling rules, load a magazine into the weapon, and fully manually cycle the rounds through the weapon. Alternate between quick and slow cycling to try to re-create the failure. You should be able to figure out if the extractor is to blame or if the weapon isn't cycling quick enough (which is usually traced to...) Ammunition can be a factor so try different loads to eliminate the possibility of a bad batch or just an underpowered load. Lubrication can be, but rarely is, a source of immediate failure. Try different types of lubrication, but keep in mind a weapon system should be capable of functioning completely "dry" (this is not good for long-term durability, but it will eliminate the possibility that your particular lube is gumming up the parts.) Find a lube that keeps everything protected but doesn't gunk up the internals.

I'm sure none of this is new to a lot of guys here and probably not the OP, but it's my go-to first step for diagnosing frequent jams. More often than not you will find the weapon itself is completely in-spec and there is some little issue causing the jams. During the process of eliminating those four variables you will usually come across any other issues and be able to diagnose them further.

In this particular case I believe the issue could be a heavy hammer spring. Basically the bolt is slowing down too much when it resets the hammer and does not fully cycle the weapon. I have had similar jams in my Spikes Tactical .22LR upper when using subsonic ammo and no suppressor. Swapping to a lighter spring assembly cleared it right up without causing weak primer strikes.

Hahaha yeah. I have checked the gun over and over and cant see the problem unless the recoil spring is just too strong. I used two different boxes of federal and even some CCI stingers to check ammo problems. They all had the same problem. I dont know if hand cycling would work. I will try it, I dont believe it is the ejector. The charging handle covers part of the bolt that has a slot in it where the empty shells get stuck. Hopefully I will be able to shoot some next week and get some pictures of the jams, as well as try new lube.

 

[Poonbag]

My contribution to this thread: I literally "LOL'ed" (or laughed out loud) at a greeting that started with



Net-handles are hilarious. "We are looking for a great warrior that goes by the name Loves2Spooge."

On a more serious note remember MEAL (magazine, extractor, ammo, lubrication) when diagnosing any frequent failures to cycle.

Try to eliminate all of those variables before blaming the rifle itself. Magazines are your most common source of failure in any auto-loading firearm, try several different mags to eliminate any possible defective mags. Extractors can be field tested by loading a magazine (with blanks or snap caps if not on a range or somewhere with a safe backstop) and cycling the rounds through the weapon manually. Obviously observe all safe weapon handling rules, load a magazine into the weapon, and fully manually cycle the rounds through the weapon. Alternate between quick and slow cycling to try to re-create the failure. You should be able to figure out if the extractor is to blame or if the weapon isn't cycling quick enough (which is usually traced to...) Ammunition can be a factor so try different loads to eliminate the possibility of a bad batch or just an underpowered load. Lubrication can be, but rarely is, a source of immediate failure. Try different types of lubrication, but keep in mind a weapon system should be capable of functioning completely "dry" (this is not good for long-term durability, but it will eliminate the possibility that your particular lube is gumming up the parts.) Find a lube that keeps everything protected but doesn't gunk up the internals.

I'm sure none of this is new to a lot of guys here and probably not the OP, but it's my go-to first step for diagnosing frequent jams. More often than not you will find the weapon itself is completely in-spec and there is some little issue causing the jams. During the process of eliminating those four variables you will usually come across any other issues and be able to diagnose them further.

In this particular case I believe the issue could be a heavy hammer spring. Basically the bolt is slowing down too much when it resets the hammer and does not fully cycle the weapon. I have had similar jams in my Spikes Tactical .22LR upper when using subsonic ammo and no suppressor. Swapping to a lighter spring assembly cleared it right up without causing weak primer strikes.

Where do I find the weaker hammer springs? are they sold separately from the internals kits?

 

[Kies_Firearms]

As i said above, we are more then happy to have a look at it as customer satisfaction is our number 1 priority. I am confident tht after we get this worked out you will be very happy with it. I am sorry for your frustrations.

Thanks
Travis

 

[AliasNeo07]

These types of responses from manufacturers and vendors mean a lot to us. Thanks for the reply and helping to instill confidence in your product.

 

[Poonbag]

As i said above, we are more then happy to have a look at it as customer satisfaction is our number 1 priority. I am confident tht after we get this worked out you will be very happy with it. I am sorry for your frustrations.

Thanks
Travis

The shipping both ways would be like $50. I would like to try to figure it out the best I can first. Make sure it has had enough rounds through it etc. I will ship it back if after putting it on a different lower and using better oil doesnt help.

 

[Poonbag]

Because of MD law I cant have magazines mailed to me that are greater than 25 correct?

 

[iHasCrabs]

Because of MD law I cant have magazines mailed to me that are greater than 25 correct?

Greater then 20

 

[Poonbag]

Greater then 20

Meaning I can purchase it in virginia and it would be legal

 

[iHasCrabs]

Meaning I can purchase it in virginia and it would be legal

Yes.

 

[Poonbag]

Got slip2000 to try so i am going to try shooting sometime this week. Trying to avoid msar becausebof the ventilation issues.

 

[BradMacc82]

MSAR is not a great place to shoot at, ventilation being one of many reasons why.

The Slip200 should treat you right, if it still jams up, I'd look at the recoil spring and/or hammer spring.

 

[TLL]

Zack, thursday 3rd is good.

 

[BenL]

Sorry to hear you're having the same experiences I had/having with my .22 upper (Tactical Solutions.)

I tried 4 different lowers, 4 different hammer/trigger combinations, different ammo, buffed the hammer face, the bolt underside, etc... nothing worked. Sent it back to Tac Sol (cost me $60), got it back 3 weeks later, and now it's getting about 15% light primer strikes. I cut a few coils off of the FP spring; I hope that does it.

I think this is just the nature of .22 AR uppers: either they work great out of the box with your setup, or it takes some effort to get them to run.

 

[zombiehunter]

I just wanted to address the "doesn't work with some bolt catches" comment. It doesn't work with out of spec bolt catches. And any company can pop out a lot of those. I had a CMMG LPK that had an out of spec safety selector or detent and that damn thing would not work no matter what I did. So I called CMMG and they shot me a new detent, problem solved. I'd give whoever built the LPK in yours a call and just ask them for a new bolt catch saying that yours "seems to be out of spec".

Good luck, it's a good looking gun