"Loophole" discovered by Delegate Luiz Simmons

[jimbob301]

If you start to act like someone is a criminal...fingerprinting, 80 day waits for background checks, etc....do you wonder why they become concerned that you are criminalizing them.
Up until recently, I would have let the police enter my house and not thought twice about it. Now, with all the craziness in the news, I am going to wait for a warrant.

 

[fabsroman]

If you start to act like someone is a criminal...fingerprinting, 80 day waits for background checks, etc....do you wonder why they become concerned that you are criminalizing them.
Up until recently, I would have let the police enter my house and not thought twice about it. Now, with all the craziness in the news, I am going to wait for a warrant.

Yeah, I have known better than that since I was 18 years old, and that was over 20 years ago. If the police knock on the door, we conduct any business they are interested in either on the front porch or at the station if they do not have a search warrant. They simply are not coming in the house without a search warrant.

 

[teratos]

I found a loophole that will reduce crime:

Oh, wait. Maryland just got rid of that.

 

[Alex]

There are plenty of people that have PBJ's for issues that have nothing to do with violence. This can not become a disqualifier.

Yeah, like me I have one from decades ago for something totally silly and benign, so I should have my rights forfeited? This state can be trying sometimes....

Guess I ought to get that expunged just in case. Lawyers... ugh...

 

[Winterborn]

No conviction means no conviction. How about we just prosecute and imprison people who are that much of a problem.

Hear hear. But to quote Baron Von Frosh, "that would rob the prosecutors of a valuable tool".

Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2

 

[Not_an_outlaw]

Sometimes PBJs are used when there isn't adeqwuate evidence to get a conviction. So, you don't want to take this option away --- to plea,.... becuase then you won't have anything. If a person is violent, they'll never make it through PBJ.

 

[fabsroman]

Yeah, like me I have one from decades ago for something totally silly and benign, so I should have my rights forfeited? This state can be trying sometimes....

Guess I ought to get that expunged just in case. Lawyers... ugh...

Alex, send me a PM. I'll do the expungement paperwork for you for free, but you will have to sign off on it and send in the $30 filing fee related to it. Might not get done for a couple of weeks since I am also a CPA and backlogged on tax returns, albeit not as bad as MSP on regulated firearms approval.

Edit to add: Not all attorneys are bad, and not all politicians are bad.

 

[fabsroman]

There are plenty of people that have PBJ's for issues that have nothing to do with violence. This can not become a disqualifier.

Yes, but I think the issue from the OP was people charged with violent crimes that receive a PBJ. It wasn't anybody and their mother that receives a PBJ. Heck, I would plead guilty then on any misdemeanor that carries a prison term of less than 2 years before getting a PBJ and having to turn in my firearms. That just would not make sense at all. Granted, I think prohibiting people from possessing firearms because of a PBJ, even for a crime of violence, is BS.

 

[gmhowell]

Hear hear. But to quote Baron Von Frosh, "that would rob the prosecutors of a valuable tool".

Defeating Frosh in an election would rob the state of Maryland of a useless tool.

 

[Brooklyn]

Yeah, that isn't quite true. I've had clients charged with 2nd degree assault, some against police officers ("LEO"). The LEOs always write them up for disorderly conduct too. Guess what happens. The assistant state's attorney usually drops the 2nd degree assault charge(s) for an agreement to plead guilty on the disorderly conduct charge. Disorderly conduct is a misdemeanor that carries a penalty of $500 and/or up to 60 days in jail last I recall. 2nd degree assault has a harsher penalty. I have yet to have a judge go against a recommendation by the assistant state's attorney for PBJ, but last week was actually a close one. Thought the Judge was going to put my client in jail for hunting deer at night and out of season, which was rather shocking to be honest, even though the assistant state's attorney had recommended PBJ.

If a charge of 2nd degree assault is actually brought to court for dumping a glass of water on somebody's head, then there really is something wrong with our society.

Its called overcharging. Its sop. It forces plea deals and is a very good way to prejudice a jury into a lesser or included offense conviction with out much trouble. This is because on law and order everyone is guilty.


Ban all TV,outlaw public education and maybe the Constitution will survive. In the meantime do not argue with fools...just call them on it and walk away....

In the end its out of our hands....

 

[2ndCharter]

What really galls me is a real criminal, say he armed robs a liquor store, and assaults the counter person, will be offered a plea bargain that if he pleads guilty to robbery and assault, they will drop the gun charge. Then they look to stiffen gun laws and say they don't work, and we need to ban guns.

Is there a watch group or database in MD that documents original charges against final outcomes? That seems to me that would be enough ammo to undue all the incumbents.

 

[SomeGuy]

He spoke about this during the hearings, I was in the Committee hearing room, so it was late pm early am.

His argument is that first you are "found guilty" and then that sentence is "pulled back" and you are given PBJ. (He had a hand in the air, pushed the hand forward to show that you were found guilty - and then pulled his hand backwards - to show the ruling being pulled back, he must have tried to explain this 6 or more times, all the delegates understood, questions were asked of him, but his phrase of -- found guilty - then guilty charge is pulled back -- was his mantra.

So this is not new, it just did not carry weight with the rest of the Committee, it is somewhere on the hearing recording,- My guess is that he was unable to convince the rest of the committee during their debate, so he has gone to the press to try and find some traction.

His argument is simply wrong - he uses the premiss that you are guilty until after probation. Rather than you are innocent until judged guilty.

Not sure what to do with the information, I guess it needs to be found on the hearing tape, so we have solid data, then add it to information when we call our delegates.

I am working on paperwork errors in the Bill, and will get hard copies to Annapolis Early Tomorrow. That is my explanation/excuse for not being able to go through the recording.

If it helps the cause to find it on the hearing recording, hopefully someone can lead and effort to split it into chunks and have others take a hour or so and listen to a part of it for his argument.

 

[tomgreco]

Looks like mainstream media is on board. Here he is again. http://www.wjla.com/articles/2013/0...del-simmons-aims-to-close-loophole-89121.html

 

[dblas]

Looks like mainstream media is on board. Here he is again. http://www.wjla.com/articles/2013/0...del-simmons-aims-to-close-loophole-89121.html

But now he is referring to the databases that MSP uses instead of entering the information in NICS like they should. Why waste $300,000 on new software when the information can be entered into NICS and tracked nationally?

 

[dogbone]

From my reading of the referenced article, he is now talking about something even more intrusive and dangerous to the privacy of gun owners.

“If I bought a gun in 1990 and then yesterday I was convicted of domestic assault, how would the State Police or anyone else know to come and take the gun away?” he asks.

Is his goal a list of who has what? And would this list go well beyond the already extensive state tracking of "regulated" firearms?

 

[dblas]

From my reading of the referenced article, he is now talking about something even more intrusive and dangerous to the privacy of gun owners.



Is his goal a list of who has what? And would this list go well beyond the already extensive state tracking of "regulated" firearms?

I believe he is referring to the regulated list only and not expanding it, but being able to compare it to the other various databases of prohibited persons in another database.

 

[abean4187]

How convenient that they missed this the first time around. I guess they will have to revisit the law next session, which of course will mean even more gets added to it.

Also, the death penalty getting repealed is a great thing. In no way should the state have the ability to kill its own citizens. Numerous people have been put to death to only later be found innocent. There is normally too much reasonable doubt in court to ever justify the use of the death penalty.

 

[Second Amendment]

Does this idiot mean anyone with an open PBJ, and does that include ones that are expunged?

 

[dblas]

Does this idiot mean anyone with an open PBJ, and does that include ones that are expunged?

PBJ issue has already passed as part of the bill, below is the answer(s) to your question(s).

The below is taken from here: http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=114585

The bill contains the Simmons Amendment (page 19, lines 16-27), which would disqualify from firearms ownership those persons who received Probation Before Judgment for certain crimes that are listed in the amendment. As amended on the House floor, this would not apply to PBJs that are expunged. The Simmons Amendment is discussed in detail in a separate thread, in which I have reproduced the entire provision verbatim, here:
http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=113930

 

[fred2207]

PBJ is a complete joke! that is half of md problem right now. I know somebody that was arrested for drunk driving and assualt on an officer allong with other charges totaling up to 12 charges, and she got off on pbj walking away with a slap... she could have killed herself and others . what message is this sending. I know pbj is not a conviction but some of the people that get pbj have done bad things so where is the line?

What do you expect? Over half the delegates and senate members are trial attorneys. They bottom feed off the laws they pass, (examples: Mike Miller and Velerio, etc.) I have heard over the years, if you get a DUI charge, Mike's your guy and if you can't get Mike, Velerio is a great second.
BTW, I agree, PBJ is a f*#king joke, too often abused, and should be stricken from the books.
Fred