Maryland's Finest?

[Indiana Jones]

So I'm a Maryland State Qualified Handgun Instructor License (QHIL) holder and currently in the process of renewing my wear/carry permit. One of new requirements for the wear/carry permit starting October 1st 2013 is that you are now required to take an 8 hour recertification course. (16 hour course for new applicants and good luck getting approved) Of course there is an exemption which one being "a Qualified Handgun Instructor" and does not need to take the training portion. (per MSP website) I sent my renewal application to MSP last week and low and behold, my application was sitting in my mailbox today when I got home from work.

I opened it up and there was a letter from MSP stating that my application was returned to me because (in short) " only Having a Handgun Qualification License (HQL) does not exempt me from the training requirement for the wear/carry permit". (Apparently the MSP doesn't even know the difference between an HQL and the QHIL) The person who returned the application to me even took the time to print out a page that states the new training requirement. But what that person didn't realize (in addition to me being exempted) was that the same page that they printed out, lists the 5 EXEMPTIONS, one of which being a "Qualified Handgun Instructor".

Now some of you may be thinking that I did not notify MSP of me having a QHIL, WRONG. I wrote a long paragraph explaining that I was in fact a QHIL holder and that per the MDSP.org website that I was exempted from this training and I even included my license number. Now this shows you just how incompetent the people that are processing our firearm paperwork really are and that the MSP don't even know their own state laws.

If you have ever called the people at the handgun permit division, they hate life and will do anything to get you off the phone. So what did I do, I called and sure enough this person sounded like they hated me before I opened my mouth. I stated that my application was returned to me for not taking the training requirement and that I was a QHIL holder and asked why my application was returned to me when I should be exempted from the training requirement. This person then proceeded to literally read me all of the exemptions starting with number 1. When they got to number 4, they slowed down and said "Qualified Handgun Instructor, oh that is on there". After a moment of letting that shock settle in, they said that I qualified for the exemption and they realized that one of their precious members (or themselves) of this elite division made a mistake and then they actually showed a glimpse of remorse although they never admitted to making a mistake. Did they fix the problem, NOPE, and I quote, "the person you need to speak with has left for the day, please call back tomorrow".

Maryland's Finest? More like "Maryland's Worst"

One mistake and an entire group of people are "the worst". Shit happens, you'll get over it. I agree it was dumb and unacceptable but come on...

 

[kgain673]

Why don't you carry under LEOSA since you were USSS. Unless you weren't an 1811 or 1801.

cause he resigned and did not retire.

 

[trickg]

One mistake and an entire group of people are "the worst". Shit happens, you'll get over it. I agree it was dumb and unacceptable but come on...

I don't see it as being "one mistake" - we see posts and threads dedicated to this subject here on the forum all the time. I see it as a general attitude in the office, which in turn creates a general perception among the gun-owning population of this state.

 

[USSS FI]

LEOSA is for people who retired and I didn't retire from the USSS.

 

[pilotguy299]

LEOSA is for people who retired and I didn't retire from the USSS.

Retirement isn't a requirement for leosa anymore. Although it says retirement in the usc, it later defines it to mean seperating after ten years in good standing.


http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/926C


(c) As used in this section, the term “qualified retired law enforcement officer” means an individual who—

(1) separated from service in good standing from service with a public agency as a law enforcement officer;

(2) before such separation, was authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of, or the incarceration of any person for, any violation of law, and had statutory powers of arrest or apprehension under section 807 (b) of title 10, United States Code (article 7(b) of the Uniform Code of Military Justice);

(3)

(A) before such separatioin, served as a law enforcement officer for an aggregate of 10 years or more;


Most agencies have not updated their policies to reflect the changes to leosa, and still reflect the initial provisions in the law.

 

[RobMoore]

For the life of me, I can't figure out who I know that left recently.

 

[fabsroman]

One mistake and an entire group of people are "the worst". Shit happens, you'll get over it. I agree it was dumb and unacceptable but come on...

lol - you have to be kidding yourself and the entire 2nd Amendment community. If you followed the nonsense of the MSP over the past 10 months or so, you would know that while it might have been one screw up per person, it was a minimum of one screw up, if not more, per person.

I tried to get an answer back in March to when I could submit a 2nd Form 77r if I wasn't a designated collector and that was like pulling teeth. I called and was hung up on. I called again and was told that the question would take too long to answer and that all the lights on the phone were lit, so she wasn't going to answer it. Then, I wrote an e-mail to the licensing division and a letter to the director. Low and behold, I received an e-mail in reply from Ms. Brock asking me to give her a call. At that point, she was very polite and explained when I could submit my 2nd application. At this point, it was almost useless information for me because I knew my Designated Collector application was close to being approved, but the information was good for the 2nd Amendment community.

The MSP changed its position on SBRs one week from the next in August.

The MSP compromised out confidential information in September.

The MSP took over 120 days for the ND.

The MSP was coy about 8 day releases being legal and required a lawsuit to get that out of it. Even then, the MSP issued a letter to dealers asking them to refrain from releasing until the ND came back.

I am sure there is plenty more that went on over the past 10 months, but that is all I can remember right now.

So, while the OP has only had this one issue with the MSP, the problem is that this is NOT a limited occurrence for just one person among thousands. This happens regularly. I know FFLs that call MSP to obtain clarification on something and it takes FOREVER to receive an answer if they even get an answer.

 

[Blaster229]

LEOSA is for people who retired and I didn't retire from the USSS.

Yeah. How much time did you spend? You at least make it through fletc? Not many just "get tired of the ********" and simply leave a 100k a year job.

 

[fabsroman]

Yeah. How much time did you spend? You at least make it through fletc? Not many just "get tired of the ********" and simply leave a 100k a year job.

Why not? For some people, money isn't everything. Plus, there might be other jobs out there that pay nearly as much. I know some law enforcement officers for Montgomery County that make 6 figures. Granted, they probably put up with a ton of BS too.

 

[UNcommon Arms]

So I'm a Maryland State Qualified Handgun Instructor License (QHIL) holder and currently in the process of renewing my wear/carry permit. One of new requirements for the wear/carry permit starting October 1st 2013 is that you are now required to take an 8 hour recertification course. (16 hour course for new applicants and good luck getting approved) Of course there is an exemption which one being "a Qualified Handgun Instructor" and does not need to take the training portion. (per MSP website) I sent my renewal application to MSP last week and low and behold, my application was sitting in my mailbox today when I got home from work.

I opened it up and there was a letter from MSP stating that my application was returned to me because (in short) " only Having a Handgun Qualification License (HQL) does not exempt me from the training requirement for the wear/carry permit". (Apparently the MSP doesn't even know the difference between an HQL and the QHIL) The person who returned the application to me even took the time to print out a page that states the new training requirement. But what that person didn't realize (in addition to me being exempted) was that the same page that they printed out, lists the 5 EXEMPTIONS, one of which being a "Qualified Handgun Instructor".

Now some of you may be thinking that I did not notify MSP of me having a QHIL, WRONG. I wrote a long paragraph explaining that I was in fact a QHIL holder and that per the MDSP.org website that I was exempted from this training and I even included my license number. Now this shows you just how incompetent the people that are processing our firearm paperwork really are and that the MSP don't even know their own state laws.

If you have ever called the people at the handgun permit division, they hate life and will do anything to get you off the phone. So what did I do, I called and sure enough this person sounded like they hated me before I opened my mouth. I stated that my application was returned to me for not taking the training requirement and that I was a QHIL holder and asked why my application was returned to me when I should be exempted from the training requirement. This person then proceeded to literally read me all of the exemptions starting with number 1. When they got to number 4, they slowed down and said "Qualified Handgun Instructor, oh that is on there". After a moment of letting that shock settle in, they said that I qualified for the exemption and they realized that one of their precious members (or themselves) of this elite division made a mistake and then they actually showed a glimpse of remorse although they never admitted to making a mistake. Did they fix the problem, NOPE, and I quote, "the person you need to speak with has left for the day, please call back tomorrow".

Maryland's Finest? More like "Maryland's Worst"

Ironic how for the last 25+ years of my CCP there was no training requirement nor any of the 14,000+ CCP holders in the state {per Balt Sun Report circa 3/13} and I never heard of ONE single infraction by any of the CCP holders.

 

[Blaster229]

Why not? For some people, money isn't everything. Plus, there might be other jobs out there that pay nearly as much. I know some law enforcement officers for Montgomery County that make 6 figures. Granted, they probably put up with a ton of BS too.

Yeah. I guess it's not for everyone for sure. Not hard money though. Lil bit of travel. The problem with UD is that all the over time money doesn't attribute towards your high 3 calculation for retirement. Easier to leave the job earlier than later. And no, it isn't that easy to leave 100k for another 100k because it simply isn't out there. Unless you're an 1811 going to another FED agency.
After 3,4,5 years or so you're stuck wearing those golden handcuffs

 

[Blaster229]

Ironic how for the last 25+ years of my CCP there was no training requirement nor any of the 14,000+ CCP holders in the state {per Balt Sun Report circa 3/13} and I never heard of ONE single infraction by any of the CCP holders.

You again.

 

[fabsroman]

Yeah. I guess it's not for everyone for sure. Not hard money though. Lil bit of travel. The problem with UD is that all the over time money doesn't attribute towards your high 3 calculation for retirement. Easier to leave the job earlier than later. And no, it isn't that easy to leave 100k for another 100k because it simply isn't out there. Unless you're an 1811 going to another FED agency.
After 3,4,5 years or so you're stuck wearing those golden handcuffs

Probably true based upon retirement issues, etc. However, working 10 to 15 years at a job I cannot stand would be extremely painful if I could find a job elsewhere and still eat. Dreading going to work every day is painful.

I have a standard by which I used to determine whether to leave a job and which I now use to determine whether to get rid of a client. I figured out that when I was stressed about something at work, I would push down on the floor of my car pretty hard with my left foot and tense both hamstrings and buttocks pretty good while driving to work. If I did this more days in a month than I didn't, it was time to leave a job. Nowadays, if I do this two times in a row when going to meet with a client, it is time to wrap that relationship up. Just not worth it to me nowadays to have to live with that.

 

[Blaster229]

That's truly listening to your body. If we all could just listen to our bodies every single time when it tells us something, we would be much healthier

 

[RobMoore]

Not many just "get tired of the ********" and simply leave a 100k a year job.

Well..............

Our poor management is the biggest reason people give for looking elsewhere, and I don't know the attrition numbers offhand, but I think we lose about 5-10 people a month.

 

[Blaster229]

Well..............

Our poor management is the biggest reason people give for looking elsewhere, and I don't know the attrition numbers offhand, but I think we lose about 5-10 people a month.

Oh, I know the management.

Most head on over to other agencies and take most, if not all of their pay with them. But let's be real. Finding a 80k-100k job isn't that easy. Especially if someone has no college degree and have been in the service for longer than a few years. I have 12 years in, you think I can jump ship now? Think about it often but nearly impossible at this point.

 

[Mooseman]

My wife turned down a job where she could earn nearly double what she earns now. She is happy with her job and the people that she works with. I told her if she is happy, stay. Money does not buy happiness.

 

[2AHokie]

One mistake and an entire group of people are "the worst". Shit happens, you'll get over it. I agree it was dumb and unacceptable but come on...

Yeah, it's definitely "one mistake" and not simply the latest incident of institutionalized discrimination against the 2A by an agency full of employees that should know better than to follow illegal orders.

Newflash: Some complaints about the police are legitimate.

 

[aquaman]

LEOSA is for people who retired and I didn't retire from the USSS.

Dan Bongino is that you?

 

[fabsroman]

My wife turned down a job where she could earn nearly double what she earns now. She is happy with her job and the people that she works with. I told her if she is happy, stay. Money does not buy happiness.

It does and it does not. Once you have enough money to meet the basic necessities, there is only so much shiny crap you can actually use in life and being miserable working for it makes ZERO sense. I have more bikes than I can ride, more guns than I can shoot, and more cars than I can drive. Throw 3 kids in the mix that I love to death and want to attend all their functions and the shiny crap has even less allure.

With that said, everybody has different values.