Presbyterians - You need to contact your church

[Spot77]

Today is the SECOND time this year that the Presbyterian Church has signed up to deny you your gun rights.

They have already signed up this morning to testify IN FAVOR of restricting magazine capacity to 10 rounds.

If you are a gun owning member of this group, I strongly suggest you get in touch and tell them to cut the crap.

 

[pcfixer]

I hear you LC. I'm a member of a United Methodists church, some Bishops have this view of Pacifism too. Fortunately our pastor has a positive attitude in this regard.
Send them this info. http://gunowners.org/fs9902.htm

"Did Christ Teach Pacifism?
Many people, Christians included, assume that Christ taught pacifism. They cite Matthew 5:38-39 for their proof. In this verse Christ said: "You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.' But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also."

"The Bible distinguishes clearly between the duties of the civil magistrate (the government) and the duties of an individual. Namely, God has delegated to the civil magistrate the administration of justice. Individuals have the responsibility of protecting their lives from attackers. Christ was referring to this distinction in the Matthew 5 passage. Let us now examine in some detail what the Scriptures say about the roles of government and of individuals.

Both the Old and New Testaments teach individual self defense, even if it means taking the assailant's life in certain circumstances."

Contrast this to Christ's use of the phrase "it is written" when He was appealing to the Scriptures for authority (for example, see Matthew 4 where on three occasions during His temptation by the devil, Christ answered each one of the devil's lies or misquotes from Scripture with the words: "it is written").



Kenny

 

[bbrown]

Do you have a quote from the New Testament in which Jesus is reported to have said that individuals must protect themselves from attackers? Not what someone else is reported to have said, but Jesus himself?

I can't think of one myself, but it's been many moons ....

Bryan

 

[eruby]

Do you have a quote from the New Testament in which Jesus is reported to have said that individuals must protect themselves from attackers? Not what someone else is reported to have said, but Jesus himself?

I can't think of one myself, but it's been many moons ....

Bryan

Luke 22:36 ?

He said to them, "But now, let him who has a purse take it, and likewise a bag. And let him who has no sword sell his mantle and buy one.

 

[pcfixer]

Do you have a quote from the New Testament in which Jesus is reported to have said that individuals must protect themselves from attackers? Not what someone else is reported to have said, but Jesus himself?

I can't think of one myself, but it's been many moons ....

Bryan

Basically, the eye for an eye scripture is taken out of context by Pacifist
that don't think you or I have a God given fundamental right to self defense.

The wisdom of the framers of the Constitution is consistent with the lessons of the Bible. Instruments of defense should be dispersed throughout the nation, not concentrated in the hands of the central government. In a godly country, righteousness governs each man through the Holy Spirit working within. The government has no cause to want a monopoly of force; the government that desires such a monopoly is a threat to the lives, liberty and property of its citizens.

 

[hodgepodge]

There are several Presbyterian groups. The largest on is thePresbyterian Church (USA) or PCUSA.

They're a liberal group very similar to the Lutherans (ELCA) or Methodists (UMC).

I seriously doubt the Presbyterian Church in AMerica (PCA) would pull this 'stuff'.

I belong to a PCA church.

 

[jeepin13]

Separation of church and state?

 

[pcfixer]

Separation of church and state?

Not accurate statement and out of context!
The Separation Of Church and State

The phrase "separation of church and state" does not appear anywhere in the Constitution. Thomas Jefferson wrote that the 1st Amendment erected a "wall of separation" between the church and the state (James Madison said it "drew a line," but it is Jefferson's term that sticks with us today). The phrase is commonly thought to mean that the government should not establish, support, or otherwise involve itself in any religion. The Religion Topic Page addresses this issue in much greater detail.

http://www.usconstitution.net/constnot.html#church

 

[jeepin13]

Thanks for the clarification

 

[diesel-man]

Separation of church and state?

Since you sling that phrase around, you go and Google it and find out where it is. It is not in the Constitution, or the Bill of Rights. Normally Athiests are the first to say it...just like the first person to smell a fart is probably the perp.

Seperation of Church and State is a phrase that if you lie about it often enough, it will become fact.

It fooled you!!!

 

[jeepin13]

Since you sling that phrase around, you go and Google it and find out where it is. It is not in the Constitution, or the Bill of Rights. Normally Athiests are the first to say it...just like the first person to smell a fart is probably the perp.

Seperation of Church and State is a phrase that if you lie about it often enough, it will become fact.

It fooled you!!!

Def had me fooled. It was the first thing that came to my mind when I heard something about religion and a potential state ban.

 

[axshon]

Pacifism is a luxury paid for by warriors. I have had this discussion with pacifist neighbors as well as the pastor of a church I no longer attend. To say that there is nothing worth fighting for is to say that you assign no value to yourself and thus assign no value to God's creations. Or you are stating that there is no evil in the world which is completely contrary to EVERYTHING in the bible. Or perhaps you are counting on God Himself to protect the things that he holds dear? Then what about the passages where God gave man posession of the earth? And what about the passage that states God helps those who help themselves? The answer is usually "I just don't think it's right" at which point it should be clear that you have crushed their arguments but they refuse to change their minds because of what they want to think, not because of what the logical extension of their biblical creed tells their minds.

Jesus was not placed here to be a political leader or a combat warrior. His role was and is very specific. He never said that we should sequester ourselves and pray that nothing bad would happen. He said to go out into the world. He said to submit ourselves to the Ceasar. Thus, be a part of society. Pay our taxes. Follow the laws. That's what we do. His context was always to submit peacefully to Ceasar when being unjustly tormented by those who hate you for being Christ-like. There is no record of Jesus being mugged but there are plenty of times when people tried to trip him up or deceitfully get him to break the law. They never won and he NEVER compromised with them and he NEVER ran away. So if you take that example, when someone breaks into your home, do you compromise with them? Do you give up your wife, your children, your property, your life for what someone else believes they have a right to take? Where did Jesus teach that? He didn't of course.

 

[hairba111]

I've heard that "The BOSS" carries a 1911 personally built by J.M. Browning. It also has an extended mag.

 

[hodgepodge]

WWJC?

 

[Streetgang]

Im prety sure I know what my Southern Baptist preacher from Tennessee would say about magazine limits.... Course he doesnt believe in crap like "social justice" and "liberation theology" that the Methodist, Lutheran and Presbyterian (not PCA) believe in.

 

[DZ]

Which Presbyterian group specifically?

 

[chrisflhtc]

I've heard that "The BOSS" carries a Glock personally built by Gaston Glock. It also has an extended mag.

fixed it for ya

 

[atimesublime]

Pacifism is a luxury paid for by warriors. I have had this discussion with pacifist neighbors as well as the pastor of a church I no longer attend. To say that there is nothing worth fighting for is to say that you assign no value to yourself and thus assign no value to God's creations. Or you are stating that there is no evil in the world which is completely contrary to EVERYTHING in the bible. Or perhaps you are counting on God Himself to protect the things that he holds dear? Then what about the passages where God gave man posession of the earth? And what about the passage that states God helps those who help themselves? The answer is usually "I just don't think it's right" at which point it should be clear that you have crushed their arguments but they refuse to change their minds because of what they want to think, not because of what the logical extension of their biblical creed tells their minds.

Jesus was not placed here to be a political leader or a combat warrior. His role was and is very specific. He never said that we should sequester ourselves and pray that nothing bad would happen. He said to go out into the world. He said to submit ourselves to the Ceasar. Thus, be a part of society. Pay our taxes. Follow the laws. That's what we do. His context was always to submit peacefully to Ceasar when being unjustly tormented by those who hate you for being Christ-like. There is no record of Jesus being mugged but there are plenty of times when people tried to trip him up or deceitfully get him to break the law. They never won and he NEVER compromised with them and he NEVER ran away. So if you take that example, when someone breaks into your home, do you compromise with them? Do you give up your wife, your children, your property, your life for what someone else believes they have a right to take? Where did Jesus teach that? He didn't of course.

This is probably one of the best articulations of why I disagree with the entire 'Christian pacifist' garbage I've ever read. I attended college in PA at a school where they were heavily rooted in the 'Brethren tradition' and always tried to pull the whole 'Christ was a pacifist,' or 'Christ was a democrat because he cared for the poor' garbage. I always just reminded myself of the verses in the Bible about how Christ fashioned a whip to drive the money changers out of the temple. Not exactly pacifism. To me, pacifism always just seemed like p***y-ism and an awful excuse to be disengaged from society and to avoid being called a coward. I've always felt like real men (and women) take a stand for what they believe in and don't let the evil in this world have its way.

 

[atimesublime]

I've heard that "The BOSS" carries a 1911 personally built by J.M. Browning. It also has an extended mag.

+ Night sights and a tac light - for when it needs to 'get biblical'.

 

[Streetgang]

This is probably one of the best articulations of why I disagree with the entire 'Christian pacifist' garbage I've ever read. I attended college in PA at a school where they were heavily rooted in the 'Brethren tradition' and always tried to pull the whole 'Christ was a pacifist,' or 'Christ was a democrat because he cared for the poor' garbage. I always just reminded myself of the verses in the Bible about how Christ fashioned a whip to drive the money changers out of the temple. Not exactly pacifism. To me, pacifism always just seemed like p***y-ism and an awful excuse to be disengaged from society and to avoid being called a coward. I've always felt like real men (and women) take a stand for what they believe in and don't let the evil in this world have its way.

That's called social justice theology. It is NOT rooted in the bible as it is written. IT is a weak interpretation of a few snippets taken out of context.