quick question on finishing 80% lower

[john_bud]

I know no one can make a gun for another person without the correct FFL. Got that. But, I also think I know that a person without an FFL can fix a gun that has already been legally manufactured.

For example, if my revolver binds up and the cylinder won't move I can take it to the local gun smith to fix or over to my buddy "bubba" to fix it. Neither have FFLs. It's legal to go to the pro smith or the amateur "bubba" - even if one option is wiser than the other, both are legal (right?).

On an 80% lower, the ATF has proclaimed that anything past the allowed machining operations makes it a weapon. Even drilling a starter hole for the trigger pack, outlining the fire control pocket, or similar makes it a firearm.

So.... if a person has trouble with an 80% lower, at what point can help be legally accepted? Here's a few "what ifs" going from one extreme to the other;

1- the rifle is all assembled and fires but has random fails. Maybe fail to fire, fail to eject, jams, etc on occasion.

2- the upper fits on the lower and the rifle is assembled, but it does not fire. For what ever reason, possibly the fire control group binds, is simply put together wrong, etc.

3- the lower parts / butt stock have not been fitted. Maybe final fitting filing / tweaking of clearances is needed, maybe the person just isn't knowledgeable enough to put all the parts in.

4 - Fire control pocket is cut, trigger opening is cut but trigger pin / selector holes not drilled.

5- No holes drilled, trigger opening not cut, fire control pocket is 1/2 way cut.

6- nothing is drilled and no metal has been removed, but the outline of the fire control pocket has been marked with a sharpy or possibly scratched with an awl.

From reading about the ATF's decisions on what changes a "paperweight" non-gun into a gun, delineating the locations to be cut (#6 above) flips it into the "firearm" category. So, if it is a firearm, then anyone should be legally able to work on it to repair it so it will fire. Right?

I changed a "paperweight" into a functioning firearm and didn't need any assistance. It works well by the way. But, if I had needed assistance, at what point can it be brought in?

Thanks for entertaining this odd question!

 

[Chevyman85]

Yay! Another hypothetical, what if this, what if that, lets get 1001 different opinions thread...

If you have a problem with a gun you built and you think your friend is competent enough to help you fix it then just do it. Don't put your business out for everyone to see. So many people keep asking these hypothetical questions lately like they're wanting to get into trouble for something.

 

[bmodzelewski]

I just wasted 2 minutes of my life by reading this crap... 2 minutes that I will never get back... thanks...

 

[john_bud]

thanks for sharing...

 

[Sharpeneddark]

Some say that as soon as you make your first cut, it's a gun. Some say that once you cut the FCG pocket, trigger hole, and firing pin/safety holes, it's a gun.

Either way, I see it as semantics. Keep in mind, I am not a lawyer. However, I would expect that if someone other than yourself works on the 'firearm' (after you cut a significant bit of it, to be on the safe side) that it could not leave your presence. Meaning, you have to watch. The then 100% (for sake of argument, let's just call it that) does not have a serial number. Therefore, you cannot transfer it. I would believe that even to a licensed gunsmith/FFL would probably shy away from it. It'll need a serial number and probably registered before a FFL/gunsmith will likely touch it. Also, per ATF regs, if it's a polymer lower, it'll need some sort of steel band with the SN written on it so it can't be a 'ghost gun' that can get through metal detectors (because...you know, you could get the barrel, ammo, and other metal parts through no problem...).

Better yet, let your friend give you advice on how you can fix it. One, it's your project and there is a bit of pride to doing something yourself. Two, you avoid the legal grey area. Him/her giving you advice is not illegal assistance. They simply cannot do the work for you in making it a 100%.

 

[mudskipper]

I have a really helpful suggestion... It might not answer your exact question, but trust me, it IS exactly what you need to hear.


Hows about not discussing 80% lowers on a public message board that is regularly monitored by police agencies looking to bust people just like you, staff members of politicians who are crafting more gun bans even as I type this, antigun activist groups like Brady and MAG, and other trolls and provocateurs? How about not giving them fodder or things to fixate on? How about instead of asking hypotheticals, you just keep to yourself things like this, do whatever it is you think you need to do, and keep your mouth shut about it?


It just never fails to astonish me the lengths that people will go to hang themselves.

 

[jcbvh]

I have a really helpful suggestion... It might not answer your exact question, but trust me, it IS exactly what you need to hear.


Hows about not discussing 80% lowers on a public message board that is regularly monitored by police agencies looking to bust people just like you, staff members of politicians who are crafting more gun bans even as I type this, antigun activist groups like Brady and MAG, and other trolls and provocateurs? How about not giving them fodder or things to fixate on? How about instead of asking hypotheticals, you just keep to yourself things like this, do whatever it is you think you need to do, and keep your mouth shut about it?


It just never fails to astonish me the lengths that people will go to hang themselves.

WORD.