Regulated Weapon Age Question

[Calengor]

http://www.mdsp.org/downloads/assault_weapons.pdf

For those of you saying that the Bushmaster HBAR's were unregulated (all of the gun shop owners I've talked to agree that they are), how is that possible when the MSP says this is regulated?:

(11) Bushmaster semi-auto rifle

A more thorough search will yield a bushmaster rifle which was made around the time of the writing of the law which looks nothing like an AR and shares no parts. It's also a good example of the bad wording of the law, since it seems to classify as regulated any and all semi-auto rifles made by bushmaster.

 

[OLM-Medic]

So technically couldn't I get in trouble for having a bushmaster AR, since it does say bushmaster semi-auto rifle...which an AR is.

 

[Markp]

So technically couldn't I get in trouble for having a bushmaster AR, since it does say bushmaster semi-auto rifle...which an AR is.

Here is the document you need... It is the assault rifle bible that the MD law refers to... Look at the picture... is that the same bushmaster rifle you're buying?

No??? Then it is not the "Bushmaster Semi-Automatic Assault Rifle" as referenced in the law. It is important to know where this legislation came from, it's a copy of the 1989 commifornia ban with changes so that it would pass in MD. They couldn't get a ban passed, so they "compromised" and made them regulated.

This law is so inherently flawed it's not even funny.

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/awguide.pdf

The Bushmaster Assault Rifle is on Page 11 (pg 21 of the 96 in the PDF file.)

Mark

 

[gunconnection]

If you are in the neighborhood, stop by, we have two different Bushmaster HBAR models in stock, and the Memorial Day sale has been extended until next Saturday June 12

 

[OLM-Medic]

Gunconnection,

I was up there yesterday looking at your AR's and was impressed at the prices compared to some other gun shops who jack up the prices. I can see why alot of people recommend your store. You can expect me back as soon as I get the check I'm waiting for. :-D



To all,

I'm only so paranoid about this because I don't want to get in trouble for some BS law. Thanks for all of the advice so far.

 

[mikec]

To all,

I'm only so paranoid about this because I don't want to get in trouble for some BS law. Thanks for all of the advice so far.

Think about it this way, Dan at Gun Connection is making his living selling guns. He DOES NOT want to run afoul of MD law. That would ruin his business.

Remember, the dealer MUST comply with the laws. If he says rifle X is OK to sell as unregulated, it is his backside on the line.

In the past Dan has sold certain rifles as Regulated to cover himself. It is HIS license, that decision is his.

If he is saying stop by, that tells me he is willing to sell to you as long as you are over 18 and otherwise legal.

 

[OLM-Medic]

Yep. I'm not sure if it was Dan, but the people I talked to were very helpful and have better prices than every other guns tore I've been to. They deffinately will have my business.

 

[OLM-Medic]

ONe guy, who doesn't live in MD, swears by his interpretation on the law that Colt HBAR Sporter is the only legal choice for me. I do believe you guys and thanks for all of the advice, but I just get paranoid that some technicality will get me one day.

Especially is the "bushmaster semi-auto rifle" one that really seems to present a technicality where someone COULD say that I violated law by having a Bushmaster HBAR.

Do you think giving the MSP Firearms division a call is a good idea? I know I'm quite the paranoid.

 

[rrrrrrkevin]

I doubt the old lady working the desk while playing cross word puzzles at the MSP firearms licensing division is going to have a clue what your talking about and if you talk to the trooper then its about 50/50.

The Bushmaster rifle might be on the list but it also specifically excluded the HBAR (I know it says colt but if you read the beginning of the article it says "reguardless of which company produced and manufactered that weapon" and if your really that concerned about ending up in jail or any trouble than dont sweat it because youll be there with thousands of other Maryland residents that have bought the same rifle cash and carry at gun shows or from friends or from dealers

 

[rrrrrrkevin]

Only reason I made the remark about calling the MSP is because I went to the firearms licensing division to do a transfer and I actually talked to the person at the desk answering phones and it literally was an old woman playing a crossword puzzle and the plaincloths trooper basically told me to check with the handgun roster board when I asked him if a certain rifle was regulated and that he would just regulate all firearms if it was up to him, and I am sure I dont have to explain why this is totally the wrong answer and it was given by a trooper in this division and this goes to show that what they tell you in that building holds absolutely no water.

 

[mikec]

ONe guy, who doesn't live in MD, swears by his interpretation on the law that Colt HBAR Sporter is the only legal choice for me. I do believe you guys and thanks for all of the advice, but I just get paranoid that some technicality will get me one day.

Especially is the "bushmaster semi-auto rifle" one that really seems to present a technicality where someone COULD say that I violated law by having a Bushmaster HBAR.

Do you think giving the MSP Firearms division a call is a good idea? I know I'm quite the paranoid.

The Fed's, ATF, will only accept certain questions in writing, no phone calls. I doubt a phone call to MSP will do anything but cause a stomach ache.

You could try a letter, to whom, I have no clue.

As far as the Colt HBAR being the only legally allowed unregulated, I have two AR's that are unregulated. one a Bushy, the other a Fulton Armory. My Del-Ton was sold regulated because the dealer said the diameter of the barrel did change under the handguards, but it wasn't a typical M4 clone type barrel. He was being careful with MSP on that one.

 

[OLM-Medic]

the only thing I feel weird about is the "bushmaster semi-auto rifle"
I just feel like if someone really wanted to get someone in trouble for having a bushy AR, then they could.

It really is a poorly written law

 

[Patrick]

You've got this wrong. There is nothing wrong with owning any AR of any flavor. The rules are not about ownership, they are about transfer.

Technically MD is not a "registration" state. You can own anything but Machine Guns without registering as long as you also comply with the prohibited list of machine pistols (which an AR is not a member -- it's a different list).

So if you lived in PA but moved here with a truckload of AR's, including those on "the list", you would have to notifiy nobody or register nothing. No transfer occurred on MD soil or while you were an MD resident. If you bought an LWRC M6A3 while 18 in PA and moved to MD at 19 you are legal.

The issue comes up only if you want to purchase one (transfer) while a resident of MD. And no...you cannot just drive to PA and buy one to get around the law. MD residency has its privileges price.

So if a dealer transfers one to you and says it is OK, it is on them. Not you. The gray area is debated among them all the time. Fact is that the MDSP knows about the gray area and whatever people do now seems to work. Just play good faith actor and rely on those who do this for a living. If a dealer is willing to sell a rifle to you without a regulation check, it is because it is a legit transaction. Nobody is going to risk their business for you and your low-margin rifle purchase.

Large-scale shady dealer transfers exist only in the imagination of people on CNN and MSNBC.

So get your panties out of a bunch and go buy something already!


EDIT: Markp pointed out that the "21" rule is on possession - not "transfer" as I had thought. Sorry for the mistake. But outside of that error, the rest of the post stands. In other words, a lot of guns are not regulated and if a dealer sells you one it is going to a legit transaction.

 

[Markp]

Patrick, he's under 21, possession of a regulated firearm for him would be illegal.

Mark

§ 5-133 (d) Possession by person under age of 21 years prohibited; exceptions.-

(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2) of this subsection, a person who is under the age of 21 years may not possess a regulated firearm or ammunition solely designed for a regulated firearm.

(2) Unless a person is otherwise prohibited from possessing a regulated firearm, this subsection does not apply to:

(i) the temporary transfer or possession of a regulated firearm or ammunition solely designed for a regulated firearm if the person is:

1. under the supervision of another who is at least 21 years old and who is not prohibited by State or federal law from possessing a firearm; and

2. acting with the permission of the parent or legal guardian of the transferee or person in possession;

(ii) the transfer by inheritance of title, and not of possession, of a regulated firearm;

(iii) a member of the armed forces of the United States or the National Guard while performing official duties;

(iv) the temporary transfer or possession of a regulated firearm or ammunition solely designed for a regulated firearm if the person is:

1. participating in marksmanship training of a recognized organization; and

2. under the supervision of a qualified instructor;

(v) a person who is required to possess a regulated firearm for employment and who holds a permit under Subtitle 3 of this title; or

(vi) the possession of a firearm or ammunition for self-defense or the defense of others against a trespasser into the residence of the person in possession or into a residence in which the person in possession is an invited guest.

 

[Patrick]

Strike what I said. Thanks for catching that.

 

[rrrrrrkevin]

It really is a poorly written law

aint that the truth

 

[Chaunsey]

if it bothers you that much buy another brand of HBAR, there are many.


but once again, there are MANY dealers who sell bushmaster HBARs cash and carry, go to an MD gun show and you will see tables full of them with big signs that say CASH AND CARRY.

this has been going for years, if there was something wrong with it, some dealer selling dozens per year would be looking at years in club fed, you, a newo wner with one bushmaster HBAR would not be the first of thousands to be busted.

i understand being paranoid, but at a certain point a little logic should calm your fears.

there's two possibilities here, either bushmaster HBARs are unregulated.


or option #2 is that hundreds of dealers and dealer employees, plus thousands of gun owners have all commited a felony and somehow the MSP has never caught it, despite the fact that the state and federal law enforcement closely monitor gun shows and inspect stores regularly, and every dealer advertises these openly as cash and carry.


this is MD, if they thought they could haul everyone in for gun violations, they'd do it, in fact they'd make a big show of it and talk about how its the largest illegal gun bust in history on the nightly news.


even in CA the state had to admit that people were right and "off list" lowers are not banned despite how much it pisses them off.

 

[mikec]

if it bothers you that much buy another brand of HBAR, there are many.

.............

would be looking at years in club fed, you, a newo wner with one bushmaster HBAR would not be the first of thousands to be busted.

.....................

Just to correct a minor point, the Feds would not care, this is a state issue, not Federal.

All the Fed's could do, if MD dealers sold guns in violation of state law, would be revoke the dealer's FFL.

Since the dealers are getting 4473s filled out and doing a NICS call, no violation of Federal law that i can see.