Riddle me this, definition of an AOW.

[Markp]

Alright the ATF does not like second vertical grips on pistols... Now I did this illustration with a firearm that is over 26" OAL and with a 16" barrel to avoid going afoul of the ATF, but for our discussion, let's imagine it was a 10" barrel and under 26" OAL.

Clearly the first picture would be an AOW (if it had a 10" barrel), but what about pictures 2 and 3?

Is that an AOW (if it had a 10" barrel)?

(NO NFA LAWS WERE VIOLATED IN THESE PHOTOS.)

 

[ericoak]

Why isn't it an sbr if barrel is under 16inches again?

 

[Markp]

Pistol lower... No stock, no SBR. That's a "buffer tube".

 

[HappyCamper]

Just don't rotate the gun 90 degrees to the left... Then it would be vertical again

Seriously, I have no idea...

 

[mudskipper]

It's not an AOW because the foregrip ISN'T vertical/perpendicular to the ground.

That's the definition. Words mean things.

Therefore, a horizontal - even an almost vertical grip, is NOT a vertical grip.

It's simple, really.

 

[SCARCQB]

An AOW is defined to be "...any weapon or device capable of being concealed on the person from which a shot can be discharged through the energy of an explosive, a pistol or revolver having a smooth bore designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell, weapons with combination shotgun and rifle barrels 12" or more, less than 18" in length, from which only a single discharge can be made from either barrel without manual reloading, and shall include any weapon which may be readily restored to fire. Such term shall not include a pistol or revolver having a rifled bore, or rifled bores, or weapons designed, made or intended to be fired from the shoulder and not capable of firing fixed ammunition." 26 USC sec. 5845(e). The ATF has made the decision that a handgun with more than one grip is an AOW based on the gun a) being concealable and b) not meeting the definition of a "pistol" in the regulations promulgated under the NFA, since they say a pistol has a single grip at an angle to the bore. However, at least one federal court has decided that if the grip is added later, the gun is not "originally designed" to be fired by holding in more than one grip, and thus putting a second grip on a pistol does not make it an AOW.
from: quarterbore

 

[Inigoes]

AOW = anything that is not a rifle, nor a pistol.

edit: SCAR beat me to it...

 

[Markp]

Amazing that even with a 11" barrel the AR is over 26" in length... Way cool, totally forgot about that on the AR platform.

 

[Markp]

AOW = anything that is not a rifle, nor a pistol.

edit: SCAR beat me to it...

Actually no... otherwise a Browning 1919A4 would be an AOW.

Interesting post SCARCQB, good food for thought.

 

[Inigoes]

Actually no... otherwise a Browning 1919A4 would be an AOW.

@ 37.94 inches, it would be alittle difficult to conceal

 

[SCARCQB]

Actually no... otherwise a Browning 1919A4 would be an AOW.

Interesting post SCARCQB, good food for thought.

If you can conceal or mexican carry a 1919, put a verical grip on it then it is an aow,

No NFA rules have been violated...but anyone concealing that will be personally violated... worse than dropping a bar of soap in front of chad.

 

[Markp]

@ 37.94 inches, it would be alittle difficult to conceal

My girl says I'd have no problem concealing that...

 

[Inigoes]

My girl says I'd have no problem concealing that...

The funny walk would give you away

 

[SCARCQB]

The funny walk would give you away

Darn, and they say Alien Tripods are fiction ( War of the worlds)

Mr. Holmes .... Keep up the good work

 

[04RWon]

So it has to be over 26OAL to not be an SBR which includes a barrel of atleast 16"? Kinda confused here

 

[Markp]

So it has to be over 26OAL to not be an SBR which includes a barrel of atleast 16"? Kinda confused here

Anything over 26" OAL and that didn't start out as a rifle or shotgun can have ANY length barrel as long as you DO NOT add a stock to it while it has a shortened barrel. Period... it all started with Panacea's 1919A4 Shorty.

 

[04RWon]

So if my ar was 27" oal, but had a 14inch barrel its not an sbr? Sorry this added a whole other level of confusion.

 

[Hopalong]

Amazing that even with a 11" barrel the AR is over 26" in length... Way cool, totally forgot about that on the AR platform.

Anything over 26" OAL can have ANY length barrel. Period...

So wait, if both of these statements are true, why is an 11" AR subject to NFA at all? Is it because the AR has a rifle stock and the 1914 doesn't?

EDIT: It looks like that's the case from re-reading the letter. You may want to change that statement to "Anything over 26" OAL without a stock can have ANY length barrel. Period..."

 

[Ab_Normal]

So wait, if both of these statements are true, why is an 11" AR subject to NFA at all? Is it because the AR has a rifle stock and the 1914 doesn't?

EDIT: It looks like that's the case from re-reading the letter. You may want to change that statement to "Anything over 26" OAL without a stock and that didn't start out as a rifle or shotgun can have ANY length barrel. Period..."

Need the bolded part too.

 

[Markp]

Need the bolded part too.

Added thanks for the catch...

Anything over 26" OAL and that didn't start out as a rifle or shotgun can have ANY length barrel as long as you DO NOT add a stock to it while it has a "short" barrel.

However the question could be asked does adding a stock to a weapon with a short barrel change it to a rifle or is it a weapon made from a firearm that now has a stock? The ATF would likely rule that it was a rifle, but the wording could trip them up...