Shadow Ops Weaponry

[Sling1]

Thanks for the info. Guess I'll be calling them to see if I can get my suppressor.

They only have stuff from Winchester Tool that was made and not delivered to Shadow Ops as an effort to recoup some of the money they are owed.

I couldn't tell if you were joking. Tannerman's Trading certainly won't have any serial numbers of suppressors that were delivered to Shadow Ops.

 

[Lex Armarum]

They only have stuff from Winchester Tool that was made and not delivered to Shadow Ops as an effort to recoup some of the money they are owed.

I couldn't tell if you were joking. Tannerman's Trading certainly won't have any serial numbers of suppressors that were delivered to Shadow Ops.

Ha! I called them and found out some very interesting information. We'll see where it leads. If I'm successful, then I will post my efforts in this thread in the hopes that others might succeed as well.

 

[fabsroman]

That SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have two .308 lowers from it and was hoping to get the matching upper from it. I knew about all the issues with the two guys and one trying to "steal" the business from the other. I was hoping the company would be able to pull through, because the lowers I have area pretty nice.

Granted, it does not suck nearly as much as it does for anybody that has actually given them money. Pretty sure Rusty knows how bankruptcy works, and those that are unsecured creditors will be lucky to get 10 cents on the dollar after a prolonged bankruptcy proceeding. Of course, you have to file your Proof of Claim in the bankruptcy proceeding to even get anything.

Alright, I just read through the thread on AR15 and that doesn't necessarily mean that the business is over and done. I knew there was some hostile stuff going on between the owners and an "employee". If memory serves me correctly, the employee was trying to steal the entire business from the equity owners, and was essentially trying to hold the equity owners hostage. I wish I had saved the e-mail that I received regarding that matter.

So, I still have hopes that this business might be back up and running sometime soon. Seems ridiculous that there was so much demand for their product, yet they were taking forever to fill orders.

 

[fabsroman]

Annnnd

Dear Shadow Ops Customer:

We are primary investors in Shadow Ops Weaponry, LLC. and were forced to shut it down due to apparent improprieties in the conducting of its business. We called in the ATF and the Colorado Attorney General's Office and the plant is under lock down and under investigation. We anticipate IRS involvement and possibly the U.S. Trustee and a Chapter 7 filing is likely. If a bankruptcy filing occurs you will be afforded a file number whereupon you can file a claim with the U.S. Trustee for what you believe is due you.

Under no circumstances do we accept, nor are we obligated, to assume or pay any of Shadow Ops Weaponry, LLC. debts.

Jim Silvester

And then I read this. Yep, sounds like the business is toast, and that really sucks for anybody that actually paid these guys prior to receiving product. Sadly, I have no idea how the credit card charge back situation works once a company goes into bankruptcy protection. DAMN!!!!!!!!!

 

[Sling1]

Ha! I called them and found out some very interesting information. We'll see where it leads. If I'm successful, then I will post my efforts in this thread in the hopes that others might succeed as well.

Excellent! They are some good people. I hope all goes well you.

 

[JoeBobOutfitters.com]

They played with fire from day one. Taking money from Paul to get orders out for Peter isn't the correct way to run a business. The business model should be built around being able to take money when the inventory ships and be able to have an organized system to get inventory shipped out in the same order it was placed.

It sounds like they didn't have any real leadership or solid control over the way the company was run from day one. Hopefully you guys get your money back and/or products. Its a crappy deal for everyone. The gun industry has had a number of these types of companies pop up over the last few years and a number are crashing hard as the market contracts and their shenanigans catch up to them.

 

[fabsroman]

They played with fire from day one. Taking money from Paul to get orders out for Peter isn't the correct way to run a business. The business model should be built around being able to take money when the inventory ships and be able to have an organized system to get inventory shipped out in the same order it was placed.

It sounds like they didn't have any real leadership or solid control over the way the company was run from day one. Hopefully you guys get your money back and/or products. Its a crappy deal for everyone. The gun industry has had a number of these types of companies pop up over the last few years and a number are crashing hard as the market contracts and their shenanigans catch up to them.

Yep, I am always skeptical of pre-paying for something before production even starts. That is the way a business raises capital in an attempt to get off the ground without issuing/incurring debt, bringing on equity partners/members, or issuing stock. Thing is, if I wanted that risk, I would want to be an equity owner in the business in return for my money.

What is puzzling is that it appears there were equity investors in Shadow Ops and that Shadow Ops had plenty of demand back during the "crisis". It put out a pretty good product because I am pretty happy with the lowers I got.

Sadly, being able to make a product or provide a service does not make somebody a good business person.

 

[Lex Armarum]

Yep, I am always skeptical of pre-paying for something before production even starts. That is the way a business raises capital in an attempt to get off the ground without issuing/incurring debt, bringing on equity partners/members, or issuing stock. Thing is, if I wanted that risk, I would want to be an equity owner in the business in return for my money.

What is puzzling is that it appears there were equity investors in Shadow Ops and that Shadow Ops had plenty of demand back during the "crisis". It put out a pretty good product because I am pretty happy with the lowers I got.

Sadly, being able to make a product or provide a service does not make somebody a good business person.

When I ordered my suppressor, they were advertised as "In Stock." They processed my Form 3 in a timely enough fashion (approved by July, ordered in May) but they had plausible excuses as to why they couldn't get the product out the door.

First, there was the e-mail about the "attempted hostile takeover" (everything is a hostile takeover with these guys) + redesign. Second, the ATF allegedly changed the rules midstream by preventing them from shipping the unfinished suppressors to a third party for anodizing. Third, more reasons why they couldn't get anodizing done. Fourth, company shuts down. Hell, they even sent me pictures of the alleged suppressors to prove that they were manufactured and only awaiting anodizing. They also sent me pictures of the redesign pistons/lugs/whatever for the suppressors. The pics appeared legit and their story didn't seem bogus until the anodizing problems kept dragging on. In the end, if they were out to commit fraud, then they succeeded.

If Paul Russ just sucks at running a business, then he may have committed fraud in the process. It was his company that filed the Form 3 with a specific suppressor listed on that form. If the suppressor didn't and doesn't exist, then I'm sure the ATF does not look kindly upon fraudulent filings. They (Shadow Ops employees) made representations of fact that may or may not be false. If there is an unanodized suppressor out there with my serial number on it, then I am entitled to that suppressor and no fraud was committed. If there isn't a suppressor that fits that description, then he or his employees have a problem.

 

[fabsroman]

When I ordered my suppressor, they were advertised as "In Stock." They processed my Form 3 in a timely enough fashion (approved by July, ordered in May) but they had plausible excuses as to why they couldn't get the product out the door.

First, there was the e-mail about the "attempted hostile takeover" (everything is a hostile takeover with these guys) + redesign. Second, the ATF allegedly changed the rules midstream by preventing them from shipping the unfinished suppressors to a third party for anodizing. Third, more reasons why they couldn't get anodizing done. Fourth, company shuts down. Hell, they even sent me pictures of the alleged suppressors to prove that they were manufactured and only awaiting anodizing. They also sent me pictures of the redesign pistons/lugs/whatever for the suppressors. The pics appeared legit and their story didn't seem bogus until the anodizing problems kept dragging on. In the end, if they were out to commit fraud, then they succeeded.

If Paul Russ just sucks at running a business, then he may have committed fraud in the process. It was his company that filed the Form 3 with a specific suppressor listed on that form. If the suppressor didn't and doesn't exist, then I'm sure the ATF does not look kindly upon fraudulent filings. They (Shadow Ops employees) made representations of fact that may or may not be false. If there is an unanodized suppressor out there with my serial number on it, then I am entitled to that suppressor and no fraud was committed. If there isn't a suppressor that fits that description, then he or his employees have a problem.

Man, that sucks. That is also why the authorities are probably out there locking up the place. Somewhat surprised that nobody was arrested in the process.

Glad I got lucky with my lowers, even though they were shipped two months later than they were promised. Guess this is one time where better late than never applies.

I hope this works out for you.

 

[Kevmo]

When I ordered my suppressor, they were advertised as "In Stock." They processed my Form 3 in a timely enough fashion (approved by July, ordered in May) but they had plausible excuses as to why they couldn't get the product out the door.

First, there was the e-mail about the "attempted hostile takeover" (everything is a hostile takeover with these guys) + redesign. Second, the ATF allegedly changed the rules midstream by preventing them from shipping the unfinished suppressors to a third party for anodizing. Third, more reasons why they couldn't get anodizing done. Fourth, company shuts down. Hell, they even sent me pictures of the alleged suppressors to prove that they were manufactured and only awaiting anodizing. They also sent me pictures of the redesign pistons/lugs/whatever for the suppressors. The pics appeared legit and their story didn't seem bogus until the anodizing problems kept dragging on. In the end, if they were out to commit fraud, then they succeeded.

If Paul Russ just sucks at running a business, then he may have committed fraud in the process. It was his company that filed the Form 3 with a specific suppressor listed on that form. If the suppressor didn't and doesn't exist, then I'm sure the ATF does not look kindly upon fraudulent filings. They (Shadow Ops employees) made representations of fact that may or may not be false. If there is an unanodized suppressor out there with my serial number on it, then I am entitled to that suppressor and no fraud was committed. If there isn't a suppressor that fits that description, then he or his employees have a problem.

I'll be calling them about this this week

 

[Pinecone]

I hope you guys get your cans or money back.

This kind of stuff is why I would never buy a suppressor from the new kid on the block. I have said it many times, wether it's a new gun, new gun company, or especially a company that makes or deals with title 2 stuff. I only buy from the big boys.

Or at least someone who is actually delivering product, not just promising something.

 

[vette80]

well I was one of the lucky ones that paid for and received all 6 lower recievers from them. They look beautiful, unfortunately though right before the new year I sent one back to have cerakoted a different color with some cool graphics. So not only am I out 250.00 bucks from some other things I purchased but I think I might have lost my lower receiver. I sent emails to Colorado attorney general I'll see if I get anywhere with that. I am worried that my billet pre sb281 is lost forever.

 

[fabsroman]

well I was one of the lucky ones that paid for and received all 6 lower recievers from them. They look beautiful, unfortunately though right before the new year I sent one back to have cerakoted a different color with some cool graphics. So not only am I out 250.00 bucks from some other things I purchased but I think I might have lost my lower receiver. I sent emails to Colorado attorney general I'll see if I get anywhere with that. I am worried that my billet pre sb281 is lost forever.

Well, you stand a better chance of getting that lower back in a bankruptcy proceeding than others do getting their money back for product that they never owned. Title to that lower is in your name. Now, anything you pre-paid for the cerakote job is probably going to become part of the bankruptcy estate. I'm not completely fluent in bankruptcy, so you might want to do some digging about items sent to a debtor for repair/work.

Here you go:

http://www.atg.wa.gov/outofbiz.aspx#.VOSkXvnF8pg

Thing is, for something that the business has of yours, you might want to think about contacting police or going to small claims court. Obviously, not worth going to small claims court in Colorado. However, you might be able to do so here under the Long Arm Statute, get a judgement for the return of the lower, and then have it served on the company.

Lots of digging for that $250 lower. Hopefully, the Attorney General in Colorado can work this out for you.

 

[vette80]

well I wouldn't do it if the lower wasn't registered before October 1st 2013. I here the rules on pre ban lowers are different then the ones afterwards. I think the link you posted was for Washington state and shadow ops is in Colorado.

 

[fabsroman]

well I wouldn't do it if the lower wasn't registered before October 1st 2013. I here the rules on pre ban lowers are different then the ones afterwards. I think the link you posted was for Washington state and shadow ops is in Colorado.

The link is for Washington State, but I think it will apply to the other 49 states. Essentially, that is your lower that Shadow Ops has in its possession. Title of the lower passed when you purchased it and it was delivered to you. So, title is no longer in Shadow Ops and the lower should not be part of the bankruptcy estate. You are just going to have to jump through a lot of hoops to get it back.

Maybe contact the ATF since this involves a firearm that is in your name and registered to you in Maryland. See if that expedites things since you know what the serial number is and have done the Maryland paperwork on it back in 2013.

 

[awptickes]

Maybe contact the ATF since this involves a firearm that is in your name and registered to you in Maryland. See if that expedites things since you know what the serial number is and have done the Maryland paperwork on it back in 2013.

This is what I'd do. Essentially they lost your firearm receiver, and it's registered to you. It's important to do this quickly, before whoever bought their inventory resells it.

 

[vette80]

anyone have the number for atf? and I guess I will need the serial number huh. Im currently at work and don't have it on me.

 

[awptickes]

Not the right number for a non-licensee, but it's muddy because of the circumstances:
ATF’s Stolen Firearms Program Manager toll free at 1-888-930-9275

https://www.atf.gov/content/firearms/firearms-industry/firearms-how-report-theft-loss

I'd make immediate mention that the firearm was lost by the licensee when they filed bankruptcy and liquidated all holdings.

 

[awptickes]

Per the arfcom thread:

Originally Posted By jonwienke:
Here are the names and numbers of 2 of the investors who took over Shadow Ops:
Jim Silvester (540) 664-2934
Tammy Scott (720) 290-3289

If you have product you paid for that was never delivered, or sent Shadow Ops lowers or other parts that were never returned, call them. They are the ones who can best assist you right now.

 

[vette80]

According to the atf ( licensing division ) the company is getting bought out and is going to open back up. Of course west Virginia division of atf wasn't able to talk to the field officer handling the case. She was only able to talk to the licensing division out there.