Shadow Ops Weaponry

[awptickes]

Awesome, I'm glad you were able to at least get an official answer from the ATF.

 

[vette80]

no answer from Jim and his mailbox is full

 

[vette80]

its not an official answer, she said that's what the feelings about the situation is out there according to the licensing division. She said that she was unable to contact the field officer incharge.

 

[llkoolkeg]

This reminds me of something that happened to me a few years back. I paid for the mounting and polishing of a beautiful katana by a very talented and highly recommended togishi named Brandon Thell of St. Paul, MN. After two years of trying to get my finished weapon back, he declared bankruptcy and skipped town. The police and state's attorney tried to help but ultimately, I was out the $1000 I paid him plus a bronze habaki, custom steel blade fittings, etc. to the tune of $1500 that vanished into his black hole. It pains me to this day as I am not a wealthy soul and the hit ruined my disposable income situation for a couple years. Others lost tens of thousands in rare heirloom swords. Ever since, I have spent my money only on non-custom products and services from large, reputable companies in good financial positions.

 

[fabsroman]

Vette80, I will hold off on celebrating on your behalf until you have the lower in hand.

I really do hope they turn this around and get back to production. I really wanted a couple AR-10" uppers from the company to match my lowers. It really is incredible that with so much demand, there was so many problems.

Me, I am guessing all the problems stemmed from disagreements between partners/members/owners. Just a shame, but I see it often enough in my line of work. At startup, everything is going to be great. Then, either the money doesn't come in and it is a disaster or the money really starts flowing and everybody wants more and more of it.

 

[awptickes]

Me, I am guessing all the problems stemmed from disagreements between partners/members/owners. Just a shame, but I see it often enough in my line of work. At startup, everything is going to be great. Then, either the money doesn't come in and it is a disaster or the money really starts flowing and everybody wants more and more of it.

In such a highly-regulated industry, I'd be easy to sabotage a business so you could buy it for a much lower price. It sucks. Paul seemed like a good guy when I dealt with him.

 

[Lex Armarum]

Well, you stand a better chance of getting that lower back in a bankruptcy proceeding than others do getting their money back for product that they never owned. Title to that lower is in your name. Now, anything you pre-paid for the cerakote job is probably going to become part of the bankruptcy estate. I'm not completely fluent in bankruptcy, so you might want to do some digging about items sent to a debtor for repair/work.

Here you go:

http://www.atg.wa.gov/outofbiz.aspx#.VOSkXvnF8pg

Thing is, for something that the business has of yours, you might want to think about contacting police or going to small claims court. Obviously, not worth going to small claims court in Colorado. However, you might be able to do so here under the Long Arm Statute, get a judgement for the return of the lower, and then have it served on the company.

Lots of digging for that $250 lower. Hopefully, the Attorney General in Colorado can work this out for you.

Lol, in this same vein, you wanna hear something funny. My FFL received the completed Form 3 from Shadow Ops and the ATF let me process a Form 4 based on that Form 3. Technically, I "own" the suppressor that they never delivered. I wonder if that ups my ante in the bankruptcy proceeding making me more akin to a secured creditor than a non-secured creditor.

At least Vette80 received information from the ATF's NFA branch. I've been calling them and no call back. Kind of irritating. They didn't even pick up the main line when I called.

 

[Kevmo]

same here rusty... i have a approved Form 3

 

[traveller]

Lol, in this same vein, you wanna hear something funny. My FFL received the completed Form 3 from Shadow Ops and the ATF let me process a Form 4 based on that Form 3. Technically, I "own" the suppressor that they never delivered. I wonder if that ups my ante in the bankruptcy proceeding making me more akin to a secured creditor than a non-secured creditor.

If this paperwork was executed prior to a bankruptcy filing, your suppressor shouldn't be part of the bankruptcy proceeding. It is no different from a car parked on the property of a bankrupt parking garage.

 

[Pinecone]

well I wouldn't do it if the lower wasn't registered before October 1st 2013. I here the rules on pre ban lowers are different then the ones afterwards.

That is not clear. MSP has been asked about buidling a banned configuration on a pre-ban lower, and different people have gotten different answers.

But the "safe" thing is that if you build it after the ban, you should NOT build a banned configuration.

But ultimately it is up to you how to proceed.

 

[vette80]

that doesn't seem right

It would make sense that any ar lower purchased before the October 1st deadline is free to do what ever the owner sees fit. It would kinda be like making me convert my fully built sigm400 over to non ban configuration even though I owned it before the law took effect. I personally don't see how its illegal as long as the lower was purchased before October 1st. Also I assume its only illegal if the upper and lower are attached lol!

 

[Pinecone]

The thinking is, you purchase the lower. A lower can be in currently banned or currently legal configuration.

If it was not assembled in a currently banned configuration BEFORE the ban, you cannot built it into a banned configuration now.

This is the reasoning by MSP and BATFE on SBR builds.

As I said MSP has given different answers to whether a non-SBR build of a pre-ban lower uses the same logic.

YOUR choice as to how to proceed. But you MIGHT end up as the test case.

 

[vette80]

I bought what was determined as a firearm by the atf pre ban so configuration shouldn't matter. SBR builds require a stamp because of the GCA. I just wanna be able to put a carbine upper on and not have to go heavy barrel. I have no intent on building an SBR.

 

[Schwabe]

Nice finding this thread, got on the band wagon late I guess, out of a Shadow45 ordered 11/06, last email response from Shadow Ops was on 11/25, nothing since, not responding to e-mails.

 

[vette80]

Tammy is the WOMEN !!!!!

24 hours ago, I thought I had lost my gun forever, I called the attorney general no luck. Called the atf, no luck. Called jim silvester, mail box was full. Called Tammy, she said she would try her best within her power to help. She said give me a couple of hours. Hour and half later she called me back, found it, shipped it priority. Keep in mind I already owned mine and set mine back for cerakoting. Each situation is different. 24 hrs later I got my lower back.

 

[blksniper2000]

Congrats on getting your purchase back.

 

[traveller]

24 hours ago, I thought I had lost my gun forever, I called the attorney general no luck. Called the atf, no luck. Called jim silvester, mail box was full. Called Tammy, she said she would try her best within her power to help. She said give me a couple of hours. Hour and half later she called me back, found it, shipped it priority. Keep in mind I already owned mine and set mine back for cerakoting. Each situation is different. 24 hrs later I got my lower back.

This suggests that the folks who now own the place understand what they do and dont own.

 

[fabsroman]

24 hours ago, I thought I had lost my gun forever, I called the attorney general no luck. Called the atf, no luck. Called jim silvester, mail box was full. Called Tammy, she said she would try her best within her power to help. She said give me a couple of hours. Hour and half later she called me back, found it, shipped it priority. Keep in mind I already owned mine and set mine back for cerakoting. Each situation is different. 24 hrs later I got my lower back.

Congrats. Very surprised that you received it that quickly.

I hope they throw out the prior management, bring in new management, continue to make the same awesome product, but with better customer service and turn around time. I really want a couple of large frame uppers from them. Otherwise, guess I'll buy the uppers from CMT.

 

[1time]

The thinking is, you purchase the lower. A lower can be in currently banned or currently legal configuration.

If it was not assembled in a currently banned configuration BEFORE the ban, you cannot built it into a banned configuration now.

This is the reasoning by MSP and BATFE on SBR builds.

As I said MSP has given different answers to whether a non-SBR build of a pre-ban lower uses the same logic.

YOUR choice as to how to proceed. But you MIGHT end up as the test case.

With SBR builds the date is the date YOU manufacture it since YOU become the manufacture. That is why you have to engrave your info on it. A stripped lower is a manufactured firearm. When you build it into a rifle or pistol you don't have to engrave your info because you are not manufacturing it.

 

[Donut1010]

Got a call from a fella with shadow ops. I had sent my lowers in due to incorrect tolerances in the lowers, my LPK would not fit so they said they paid for me to send them back along with my LPK. The dream they sold me was "we will fix the lowers and install LPK for you". Then shit hit the fan. Anyway dude today that I talked to said he had an ATF agent standing over his shoulder and It sounded busy in the shop.

When asked if lowers were fixed he said if he had to guess, probably not. Said there were parts in the box maybe my LPK? When asked about the one upper I was missing he said he didn't have any and to take it up with Paul russ who is responsible for all existing/past orders.
That is the conversation in a nutshell.