Shadow Ops Weaponry

[clarksvegas]

Got a call from a fella with shadow ops. I had sent my lowers in due to incorrect tolerances in the lowers, my LPK would not fit so they said they paid for me to send them back along with my LPK. The dream they sold me was "we will fix the lowers and install LPK for you". Then shit hit the fan. Anyway dude today that I talked to said he had an ATF agent standing over his shoulder and It sounded busy in the shop.

When asked if lowers were fixed he said if he had to guess, probably not. Said there were parts in the box maybe my LPK? When asked about the one upper I was missing he said he didn't have any and to take it up with Paul russ who is responsible for all existing/past orders.
That is the conversation in a nutshell.

Having ATF lurking around their shop might be a good sign for the folks who sent stuff in for work or gained ownership (form 3s?) of product. If nothing else, ATF hates and will kill businesses for unaccounted for inventory.

 

[vette80]

I am not building an SBR, I just want to build a non heavy barrel carbine.

 

[NateIU10]

I am not building an SBR, I just want to build a non heavy barrel carbine.

I'm with Pinecone on that one, actually.

 

[vette80]

I bought an m1a, m21 receiver, and since there is no legal configuration of this now cause the m1 garand is a different receiver. Are you telling me that my receiver is just a giant paper weight? Also I have 1 fully built ar15 rifle that I bought before the ban. Ill build a couple of carbine uppers and leave them unattached.

 

[blksniper2000]

I'm pretty sure I'm screwed, I put my order in 01/14 for my shdw45 but I don't have a form 3 from them, I kept getting a lotta run around and had to switch my ffl.

 

[vette80]

I'm pretty sure I'm screwed, I put my order in 01/14 for my shdw45 but I don't have a form 3 from them, I kept getting a lotta run around and had to switch my ffl.

the only thing I can tell you bro, contact tammy, she will do everything in her power to help.

 

[NateIU10]

I bought an m1a, m21 receiver, and since there is no legal configuration of this now cause the m1 garand is a different receiver. Are you telling me that my receiver is just a giant paper weight? Also I have 1 fully built ar15 rifle that I bought before the ban. Ill build a couple of carbine uppers and leave them unattached.

I'm saying that there is a logical, and I think right, line of thought that you cannot build the receiver into an Assault Long Gun. You did not possess an Assault Long Gun before the ban, you simply possessed a receiver. Building the receiver into a long gun now would place you, at the very least, in possession of an Assault Long Gun, IMO. You can still build the M1A into a pistol or SBR, but taking the strictest interpretation of the law, you cannot build it into a rifle.

With AR receivers, I see it this way: You may possess any Assault Long Gun you possessed before 10/01/2013. An AR15 receiver is not, and cannot be, an Assault Long Gun in of itself. If they are, we would not be able to purchase them today. Because you did not possess an ALG before the ban, you cannot possess one now.

 

[fabsroman]

I'm saying that there is a logical, and I think right, line of thought that you cannot build the receiver into an Assault Long Gun. You did not possess an Assault Long Gun before the ban, you simply possessed a receiver. Building the receiver into a long gun now would place you, at the very least, in possession of an Assault Long Gun, IMO. You can still build the M1A into a pistol or SBR, but taking the strictest interpretation of the law, you cannot build it into a rifle.

With AR receivers, I see it this way: You may possess any Assault Long Gun you possessed before 10/01/2013. An AR15 receiver is not, and cannot be, an Assault Long Gun in of itself. If they are, we would not be able to purchase them today. Because you did not possess an ALG before the ban, you cannot possess one now.

I am in the other school of thought. The definition of "firearm" in the statute includes the receiver for the firearm. The word "firearm" is used in the definition of Assault Long Gun and the word "firearm" is again used in the list of enumerated long guns that make up the now banned Assault Long Guns.

Of course, I built all of my pre October 1, 2013 lowers into a complete Assault Long Gun before the stroke of midnight on October 1, 2013.

Now, what happens if somebody had a complete assault long gun built up at 10:00 am on September 30, 2013, got home from the range at 2:00 pm on September 30, 2013, decided to clean down the gun at 4:00 pm on September 30, 2013 thereby taking the upper off the gun, and holy smokes, forgot to have it assembled at the stroke of midnight when September 30, 2013 became October 1, 2013?

Of course, my view of the statute means that all these lower receivers that we are still able to purchase, are illegal because they are the firearm of the now banned Colt AR-15 and its copies, except the Colt AR-15 HBAR Sporter, and its copies, because as we know, Colt no longer makes the HBAR Sporter. Ah, then we can make an AR pistol out of these lowers too.

So, if somebody had their previously assembled AR-15 disassembled at the stroke of midnight on September 30, 2013, would it have to become an HBAR on October 1, 2013?

 

[Lex Armarum]

I am in the other school of thought. The definition of "firearm" in the statute includes the receiver for the firearm. The word "firearm" is used in the definition of Assault Long Gun and the word "firearm" is again used in the list of enumerated long guns that make up the now banned Assault Long Guns.

Of course, I built all of my pre October 1, 2013 lowers into a complete Assault Long Gun before the stroke of midnight on October 1, 2013.

Now, what happens if somebody had a complete assault long gun built up at 10:00 am on September 30, 2013, got home from the range at 2:00 pm on September 30, 2013, decided to clean down the gun at 4:00 pm on September 30, 2013 thereby taking the upper off the gun, and holy smokes, forgot to have it assembled at the stroke of midnight when September 30, 2013 became October 1, 2013?

Of course, my view of the statute means that all these lower receivers that we are still able to purchase, are illegal because they are the firearm of the now banned Colt AR-15 and its copies, except the Colt AR-15 HBAR Sporter, and its copies, because as we know, Colt no longer makes the HBAR Sporter. Ah, then we can make an AR pistol out of these lowers too.

So, if somebody had their previously assembled AR-15 disassembled at the stroke of midnight on September 30, 2013, would it have to become an HBAR on October 1, 2013?

Guys,

Please don't derail the Shadow Ops thread. I find this discussion as interesting as both of you BUT I put up this thread to discuss SOW's dissolution and outstanding orders. Would greatly appreciate your cooperation!

 

[fabsroman]

Guys,

Please don't derail the Shadow Ops thread. I find this discussion as interesting as both of you BUT I put up this thread to discuss SOW's dissolution and outstanding orders. Would greatly appreciate your cooperation!

lol - what thread does not get derailed? When it becomes a complete disaster, or it falls off of the page for lack of response, time to start a new thread for updates.

I'll try to be good, but I'm not promising the world.

However, I do hope you get the matter with your suppressor resolved.

 

[Lex Armarum]

Having ATF lurking around their shop might be a good sign for the folks who sent stuff in for work or gained ownership (form 3s?) of product. If nothing else, ATF hates and will kill businesses for unaccounted for inventory.

Well, some potential good news. I decided to give Tammy a call this evening to see if I could get the same positive results that Vette80 received. She did not disappoint. We have a problem with my FFLs information and we're trying to sort that out but she sent me a pic of my suppressor/order and, as soon as we sort out the FFL stuff, she'll ship my suppressor. Fingers crossed!

 

[fabsroman]

Well, some potential good news. I decided to give Tammy a call this evening to see if I could get the same positive results that Vette80 received. She did not disappoint. We have a problem with my FFLs information and we're trying to sort that out but she sent me a pic of my suppressor/order and, as soon as we sort out the FFL stuff, she'll ship my suppressor. Fingers crossed!

Time to derail this thread for a party, or is it too soon. I was shocked that Vette80 received his lower so quick. Let's hope that is the same deal with you.

Just got a range badge to AGC last weekend, so maybe we can head out there after tax season and sling some lead at moderate to high speed. CRAP, that is probably a derailleur. Anyway, PM me if interested so we can keep this thread on track.

Back on track. I hope Tammy gets things in order over there, they get back into production, and they start a new trend of filling orders promptly, or better yet, actually having the product on hand before listing it for sale.

CMT lists what it has available for sale, and when it is gone, the item is listed as "out of stock". Guess ShadowOps had a serious cash flow problem and needed the money well in advance of being able to supply the product. Kind of crazy since we know there are investors involved. Even crazier that they were not able to secure a cash advance or small business loan since they had the demand.

Keeping my fingers crossed that I will eventually be able to order a couple of uppers from them.

 

[Lex Armarum]

Time to derail this thread for a party, or is it too soon. I was shocked that Vette80 received his lower so quick. Let's hope that is the same deal with you.

Just got a range badge to AGC last weekend, so maybe we can head out there after tax season and sling some lead at moderate to high speed. CRAP, that is probably a derailleur. Anyway, PM me if interested so we can keep this thread on track.

Back on track. I hope Tammy gets things in order over there, they get back into production, and they start a new trend of filling orders promptly, or better yet, actually having the product on hand before listing it for sale.

CMT lists what it has available for sale, and when it is gone, the item is listed as "out of stock". Guess ShadowOps had a serious cash flow problem and needed the money well in advance of being able to supply the product. Kind of crazy since we know there are investors involved. Even crazier that they were not able to secure a cash advance or small business loan since they had the demand.

Keeping my fingers crossed that I will eventually be able to order a couple of uppers from them.

Smartass. lol. Happy to go shooting with you anytime my wife unhooks the chain.

 

[fabsroman]

Smartass. lol. Happy to go shooting with you anytime my wife unhooks the chain.

lol - going to have to get together at some point when it warms up. Either processing firewood, shooting firearms, just plain old shooting the BS, or whatever.

 

[Pinecone]

I bought what was determined as a firearm by the atf pre ban so configuration shouldn't matter. SBR builds require a stamp because of the GCA. I just wanna be able to put a carbine upper on and not have to go heavy barrel. I have no intent on building an SBR.

The point is, if you ask MSP you will get one of two answers.

One, that it is OK. The other is that they have not yet determined it that is legal.

So, you can do what YOU want, but you COULD end up as the test case, if they decide that it is not legal.

BTW, you know the military is going to a heavy barrel?

 

[Pinecone]

With SBR builds the date is the date YOU manufacture it since YOU become the manufacture. That is why you have to engrave your info on it. A stripped lower is a manufactured firearm. When you build it into a rifle or pistol you don't have to engrave your info because you are not manufacturing it.

As I have said before, if you email MSP on this, they will give you one of two answers. When we did this a few months ago, it ran about 50/50 as to which answer you would get.

YOU can decide what you want, but if MSP decides it is not legal, what do you do? Do you want the chance to be the test case?

 

[vette80]

I hate to keep this derailing going.

But the state police needs to start enforcing the laws on the books, instead of legislating there own opinions and that includes the attorney general. I don't see anywhere in the law banning making an assault long gun. Especially making one from a registered pre ban lower. The firearm was registered prior to October 1st, 2013. Building configuration should follow the laws of the registered time period. End of Rant.

 

[traveller]

CMT lists what it has available for sale, and when it is gone, the item is listed as "out of stock". Guess ShadowOps had a serious cash flow problem and needed the money well in advance of being able to supply the product. Kind of crazy since we know there are investors involved. Even crazier that they were not able to secure a cash advance or small business loan since they had the demand.

Banks have been very skiddish loaning on firearms businesses in recent years.

 

[vette80]

ok your right.

so it seems that Mdsp can't tell me if its legal or not to build an assault long rifle or not. Its something they are looking into and don't have an estimate time yet. So this leaves the question, whats constitutes a heavy barrel and where can you get them?

 

[1time]

As I have said before, if you email MSP on this, they will give you one of two answers. When we did this a few months ago, it ran about 50/50 as to which answer you would get.

YOU can decide what you want, but if MSP decides it is not legal, what do you do? Do you want the chance to be the test case?

I was merely pointing out that comparing it to SBR is flawed. Assembling a lower does not constitute making a new firearm. Making a SBR does.

I give no opinion on the legality of assembling a pre ban lower after 10/13. I could make arguments both ways and I'm sure I could find judges to agree with either argument. However, the ATF stance on manufacturing SBR's vs non NFA firearms would be part of my argument that it would be legal to assemble a pre ban lower now.