States with Higher Gun Ownership and Weak Gun Laws Lead Nation in Gun Death

[Deacon51]

http://www.vpc.org/press/0905gundeath.htm

Talk about it.

 

[GNLaFrance]

Shallow and inane, de rigeur for the VPC. Of course it fails to mention that most of the gun deaths in the states with the "weakest" laws are career criminals killing other career criminals, a situation over which I personally can't shed many tears.

 

[Tootall]

i find this flawed in that they didnt show comparative rates of some of the strictest states (ie California, Maryland and Illinois) which would rain shit all over their parade. Statistics and graphs are easily manipulated, you can make them work for you no matter what the real numbers say. Last time i checked you cant get a CCW around here to save your life but pookie still finds a way to put a hole in lil jeezys head up on green mount every other day

 

[Llyrin]

I'd like to know where they are pulling their data. It seems to me NY City alone should have put that state quite a bit higher. And look at LA. How many gun deaths occur in NOLA and Baton Rouge alone? And how many of those deaths (overall, not just LA) are from guns owned legally?

 

[Deacon51]

If a anti pulls this out at a hearing, how do you combat it?

They have a simple argument, no guns = no gun deaths.

 

[GNLaFrance]

If a anti pulls this out at a hearing, how do you combat it?

They have a simple argument, no guns = no gun deaths.

The response is, "So you're saying there were no murders, no killing, before the invention of guns?" "You want the Dark Ages to come back? You want small, weak people like women, children and the elderly to be completely at the mercy of younger, bigger, stronger men?" "Gun control is the theory that a woman lying in an alley, raped and strangled with her own panty hose, is morally superior to a woman explaining to the police how her attacker got all those bullet holes in him."

 

[Tootall]

If a anti pulls this out at a hearing, how do you combat it?

They have a simple argument, no guns = no gun deaths.

. sure ok lets bans guns because its working so well in Britain. STAB STAB STAB

 

[MikeTF]

The difference between the author of this study and a used car salesman: the used car salesman knows when he's lying.

 

[alucard0822]

They say "weak gun laws" in the title, but nothing in the statistics, only a "% of ownership", which may or may not have anything to do with the gun laws in that state, assuming the number is even accurate. It also says nothing about weither the high rate of gun owership is in RESPONSE to the crime rate, as law abiding un owners arm themselves to protect their families, and supposedly if they do succesfully, that would probably count as a "gun death". There is also the matter of a large ammount of drug and gang activity in the gulf coast states, and coupled with the damage still around from Katrina, and the fact that a lot of police left the area for good, without veteran replacements and a shortage of manpower to deal with the crime ridden areas, the numbers will probably stay bad for some time. And just hypothetically, there is probably a higher suicide rate amongst the survivors tha normal, a lot of people just can't pick themselves back up after losing everything. The low gun ownership states also do not neccesarily have lower crime, or lower murder, or even lower instances of gun crimes.

 

[Todd v.]

The problem I see is that they are a non-profit with a specific agenda. We all know how far the anti's will go. Of course they are going to manipulate their data in any way possible to make it look the way they want to further their cause. I would suspect that they have done some serious finagling to get the numbers to look the way they wanted.

This is contrary to everything I've seen, the wonders you can do with data that is very vague on details is astounding.. Someone who is willing to invest some time can figure out how they did it, if was not out and out fraud.

 

[wilcam47]

that site looks like a PRO-brady overtones to it...I didnt know DC had weak gun laws?? maybe its more like weak police that arent locking up the criminals that have the ILLEGAL guns...

 

[Llyrin]

They say "weak gun laws" in the title, but nothing in the statistics, only a "% of ownership", which may or may not have anything to do with the gun laws in that state, assuming the number is even accurate. It also says nothing about weither the high rate of gun owership is in RESPONSE to the crime rate, as law abiding un owners arm themselves to protect their families, and supposedly if they do succesfully, that would probably count as a "gun death". There is also the matter of a large ammount of drug and gang activity in the gulf coast states, and coupled with the damage still around from Katrina, and the fact that a lot of police left the area for good, without veteran replacements and a shortage of manpower to deal with the crime ridden areas, the numbers will probably stay bad for some time. And just hypothetically, there is probably a higher suicide rate amongst the survivors tha normal, a lot of people just can't pick themselves back up after losing everything. The low gun ownership states also do not neccesarily have lower crime, or lower murder, or even lower instances of gun crimes.

Maybe the report's author equates greater ownership with weaker laws.

 

[Brychan]

Ok, I must be blind I didn't see DC ranked and in 06 they should have been at the bottom.

Florida & Texas should of been much higher, with there CCW laws.

I can't imagine we have more guns here than Texas. I'm sure Houston alone has more guns than Maryland.

Study does seem flawed

 

[vette97]

Alaska is #3? Are they out of their minds. There's nothing to back this up, just numbers on a spreadsheet. I can type something like that up, too.

During the Revolutionary War, 25000 Americans lives were lost. There were 2.8 Million people in the US in 1780. Pretty much anyone and everyone had a gun and there were no gun laws. 0.9% death rate. Gun laws increased the crime rate!

 

[Spot77]

If a anti pulls this out at a hearing, how do you combat it?

They have a simple argument, no guns = no gun deaths.

Excellent point. Unfortunately we'll really need someone like Phil Lee who can do the research and provide an accurate in depth mathematical analysis to counter crap like this.

 

[coinboy]

The numbers in this equation are very skewed. First they are only counting the guns that they can actually count. How are they counting them and where are they getting the data? I am pretty sure they can not count all the illegal guns in California, Baltimore City, or New York City. In fact, I very much doubt they can even count the legal guns. Do these gun deaths include assailants killed by homeowners and police officers? I am sure they do. I know the data says it is the most recent, but it is from 2006. That was three years ago and quite out of date if you ask me. Let's try this list now in 2009 considering Obama has been named the gun salesman of the year. I bet the data would be much different.

It's easy to pick a few states out of a list and try and prove a point. According to the full 50 state list, you can also use the same data against them. By there list we could try and prove beyond a doubt the guns do not change crime or we could also show than guns reduce crime. This is skewed data that they can't even produce a conclusive result with. They are just picking and choosing states that fit their data from this very useless data.

 

[coinboy]

Excellent point. Unfortunately we'll really need someone like Phil Lee who can do the research and provide an accurate in depth mathematical analysis to counter crap like this.

Just use their own data against them. You could easily prove that more guns=less crime from their own stupid list.

 

[jpk1md]

http://www.vpc.org/press/0905gundeath.htm

Talk about it.

Funny thing is that NH, Montana, Pa, Vermont and a host of other states totally spoil this work of fiction.

 

[coinboy]

It would be interesting to use this data against a Brady Scorecard made for 2006. Anyone save the Brady scorecard for 2006?

 

[Punchabearinnamouf]

I recently did my final essay for my English class on gun control. I'd say this chart is total bull. I don't know if this is just around my area or what (I highly doubt it's restricted to here) but all of the crime you hear about on the radio happens in more developed areas with likely less guns, or more illegal guns anyway. For those of you I'm talking about around Lexington Park, Waldorf, sometimes Leonardtown.
You rarely hear about someone breaking in or being attacked in like 7th District or even here in Hollywood. I guarantee its because it's common knowledge that those people have guns.
Not to mention, this chart is total bull for another reason.
It would be EXTREMELY easy to take those statistics and turn them against us.
They failed to mention what they're factoring in. How many of these were criminals being shot? How many of them were from Illegal guns? Just because there are gun deaths, does not mean that the people who own guns for their houses are causing them. That's like saying 100% of households have knives and stabbing weapons in their homes, and these states are leading in knife-related deaths! It's a simple equation, More knives = more knife deaths. Well no shit Sherlock.