Suppressing Bolt Action: Standard vs Bull Barrel

[RobMoore]

As the title says, if I am starting from scratch, is it advantageous to buy a bull barreled rifle if I am going to have it threaded for a can?

I haven't decided on a caliber yet, but I'm leaning to .300 winmag.

 

[4g64loser]

Rob, take this .02 for what it is worth:

I only thread bull barrel guns (especially centerfire rifles) for cans.

1. Thicker, heavier barrel will better resist the large weight of a can hanging on the end, minimizing POI shift (this is especially true with the generally very heavy 300WM rated cans)
2. Bull/heavy barrel will accept more rounds with greater accuracy retained as a rule. This is especially true when you have a can that holds more heat and pressure in the bore. Trust me, the gun heats up and craps up more with a can.
3. The bull barrel provides a larger shoulder/mating surface for the can to butt against. This increases the bearing area and, assuming your smith is competent, will keep the can on straighter. The larger surface area of contact also keeps the can from loosening up as easily (all other things being equal, this is ANNECTDOTAL from my experience only).

If you have specific questions, i'm happy to answer them if i can.

 

[clandestine]

Rob, take this .02 for what it is worth:

I only thread bull barrel guns (especially centerfire rifles) for cans.

1. Thicker, heavier barrel will better resist the large weight of a can hanging on the end, minimizing POI shift (this is especially true with the generally very heavy 300WM rated cans)
2. Bull/heavy barrel will accept more rounds with greater accuracy retained as a rule. This is especially true when you have a can that holds more heat and pressure in the bore. Trust me, the gun heats up and craps up more with a can.
3. The bull barrel provides a larger shoulder/mating surface for the can to butt against. This increases the bearing area and, assuming your smith is competent, will keep the can on straighter. The larger surface area of contact also keeps the can from loosening up as easily (all other things being equal, this is ANNECTDOTAL from my experience only).

If you have specific questions, i'm happy to answer them if i can.

Excellent advice.

My only imput is if weight bothers you have the barrel shortened to 20" and then threaded. If you get a Titanium Can it will maintain its 24-28" original length and balance.

 

[4g64loser]

Clandestine-

appreciate the help....i'm not a gunsmith, just a gun monkey!

i won't shorten a magnum. the powders I use for the boss's rig, dropping the barrel to 20" from 24 would cost a good bit in velocity. excellent advise for OP though! I use .308. if i need the range of a winmag, i don't really need a can for my use. that and burning that much mag powder in the can scares me.

titanium should solve the weight and short bbl problems, though.

 

[RobMoore]

Thanks guys. It is looking more and more like .308 will have to be my answer. I have seen quite a few savage 10fp rifles on gunbroker with threaded heavy barrels.

 

[SCARCQB]

have you looked at the Remy 700 SD? Its already factory set-up for what you want to do.
http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire/model-700/model-700-sps-tactical-aac-sd.aspx

 

[4g64loser]

Scar,

I'll politely disagree on the 700.....seen too many that wouldnt shoot straight....ask rick about 300WM 700 PSS rifles once if you want to see a weasel blow through the roof....

Rob, I would go 308. especially if this is your first suppressed bolt gun. cans are cheaper. ammo is cheaper. guns are usually cheaper too. oh, and you can (usually) safely load subsonic round that will stabilize out of the twist in the factory barrel. they are .30cal pistol ammo power, but cool for impressing people and using up spare time.

savage makes ready-to-suppress rifles too. Rugers gunsite scout is also an option if you want really compact and mag fed.

Scar has better Remington luck it seems. I have savages. And rugers. (at least for suppressed bolts)

 

[Vic]

May I ask a question here kind of off topic? How much reduction in report do you get by suppressing a .308? I guess as long as you keep it subsonic that is okay. If I were going to go subsonic I would want a larger projectile than a .308, but then again I use them for hunting.

Vic

 

[clandestine]

I agree with 4g, Unless you buy a custom 700, they can be unimpressive accuracy wise. The only factory remingtons that shoot well conistently from the box are 5r models, custom shop, and police hbar models.

Im a huge 700 fan and its my honest opinion about 700 accuracy. I dont like savages but they do shoot well. I despise ruger bolt guns.

 

[ericoak]

May I ask a question here kind of off topic? How much reduction in report do you get by suppressing a .308? I guess as long as you keep it subsonic that is okay. If I were going to go subsonic I would want a larger projectile than a .308, but then again I use them for hunting.

Vic

Don't have numbers but a fellow mdshooters member let me shoot his suppressed .308. Only other suppressed rifle I had to compare it to was m16. They aren't even in the same league. I could have shot it all day with out hearing protection, using supersonic loads. He dropped a subsonic round in and if I had my back to him I would have thought someone shot an air gun.

 

[4g64loser]

Vic- supersonic .308 isn't silent. you get the supersonic crack but very little muzzle report. i shoot suppressed 223 and 308 (mostly 223) with normal factory ammo or full power handloads. you can do subsonics but get lousy downrange energy (and at such low velocities the projectiles don't expand for beans). I generally just shoot full power.

Chad is absolutely correct on remmy 700s. I won't buy one unless I get it from a gunsmith I trust completely. Eddie Harren and Chad would be two I trust. If you want a sexy bolt gun, they are your best bet and both are on these boards.

I disagree on savage....Chad and Ed (shell) can keep kicking me in the balls over this. I don't mind. Despite the distaste for savage, if you don't want to pay for a custom remmy, they all shoot out of the box for an out of the box price.

On Ruger, well, Chad's got a point. I love their 77/22 and 77/44 rifles. Their km77 mII VT rifles seem to always shoot well too. their "regular" hunting rifles have hunting rifle accuracy. Let me be clear that I DO NOT recommend suppressing a standard grade hunting rifle of any flavor. The Gunsite Scout is a new model and as I have not yet suppressed one I can only rely on the opinions of others. The jury on it is still out.

 

[RobMoore]

May I ask a question here kind of off topic? How much reduction in report do you get by suppressing a .308? I guess as long as you keep it subsonic that is okay. If I were going to go subsonic I would want a larger projectile than a .308, but then again I use them for hunting.

Vic

For my purposes, I want the can for the novelty, and I'm using the increased accuracy, reduced recoil, and reduced report to justify it to myself. I don't need it whisper or even no-foamies quiet. I will mostly use factory ammo.

 

[clandestine]

For my purposes, I want the can for the novelty, and I'm using the increased accuracy, reduced recoil, and reduced report to justify it to myself. I don't need it whisper or even no-foamies quiet. I will mostly use factory ammo.

If you choose .308 there are a few places that make factory sub loads.

 

[Lapua Dan]

.

 

[4g64loser]

Lapua Dan- (and others who may be lurking/curious)

As you noted, you can get ExtremeShock but also available (and in no particular order) are:

CorBon cartridge (185gr i think)
Lapua (200gr for sure---but usually about 50 a box)
TTI (no idea on weight, never used)
EBR (engle ballistic research, don't remember the weight)

I've done some subsonic reloading but I don't generally consider it worth anything more than a curiosity. As the Finnish say, a suppressor does not make the rifleman silent, it makes him invisible.

I can shoot without hearing protection using a can on a rifle (bolt gun). I know it is a bad idea but it is my hearing. I do not recommend this practice, I just engage in it.

 

[rsideout]

Here is a quick video of 2 rounds of subsonic .308 ammo. I bought the ammo on Gunbroker. The gun is a Savage BAS-K and the silencer is an SWR Omega 300.

 

[AirCav73]

If you are interested in a 308 subsonic, Give Bob at R&R Enterprises a call
(410) 437-2507.

 

[SCARCQB]

Scar,

I'll politely disagree on the 700.....seen too many that wouldnt shoot straight
savage makes ready-to-suppress rifles too. Rugers gunsite scout is also an option if you want really compact and mag fed.

Scar has better Remington luck it seems. I have savages. And rugers. (at least for suppressed bolts)

Actually, my m1a outshoots my Remington 700 Varmint in terms of accuracy. I'm not a boltgun fanboy. I have better luck with semi- autos. Also, My Rem 700 mods stalled due to other projects. ( still need a good scope and to get the barrel threaded).( changed out the stock- freefloated, alum. bedding, installed a new trigger, 20moa base)

I was going to put a can on the Rem 700 but decided not to proceed. I'm just staying with the M1a/ M14 for now.( Subsonic 308s while extremely quiet, have the ballistic performance of a ruger LCP.) I'm trying to find a 308 load that will cycle in a suppressed M1A. If not, I can manually charge the rifle as fast as any bolt gun from a 20 round mag, change out the magazine with standard ammo and you can lay down more firepower as compared to a bolt gun.