Thinking About Teaching a W&C Class...need a reality check

[Mike OTDP]

I'm considering teaching a W&C class or two in the September/October timeframe (I'm headed to Germany in August). After reading the W&C complaints threat, it occurred to me that it might be advisable to structure it as two classes.

One would be for HQL holders, would skip the basic "the bullet comes out of this end" stuff, and would go into more detail on holster selection, concealment tactics, etc. More range time, if I can arrange it.

The other class would be for complete novices. Basically the NRA's PPOTH course material.

Thoughts?

 

[Bullfrog]

My first thoughts are having HQL does not equal 'experienced'.

Not having an HQL does not equal 'inexperienced'.

A lot of people who have been around firearms for a long time opted not to get an HQL, or are exempt (MIL, LEO, etc). I'm sure there are many people who have an HQL who have never taken another course or spent time at the range other than what was required to get it.


If that is your intent I would consider different criteria for dividing up your classes.

Two classes, one for beginner and one for moderate to experienced sounds like a good idea. HQL is irrelevant.

 

[jrumann59]

My first thoughts are having HQL does not equal 'experienced'.

Not having an HQL does not equal 'inexperienced'.

A lot of people who have been around firearms for a long time opted not to get an HQL, or are exempt (MIL, LEO, etc). I'm sure there are many people who have an HQL who have never taken another course or spent time at the range other than what was required to get it.


If that is your intent I would consider different criteria for dividing up your classes.

Two classes, one for beginner and one for moderate to experienced sounds like a good idea. HQL is irrelevant.

The question is how do you decide who is what, there are inexperienced that think they are marksman, then there are others that would feel they do not fall into "experienced" category either. Unless he is going to "qualify" prospective students it will be tough to draw that line.

 

[RoadDawg]

My first thoughts are having HQL does not equal 'experienced'.

Not having an HQL does not equal 'inexperienced'.

A lot of people who have been around firearms for a long time opted not to get an HQL, or are exempt (MIL, LEO, etc). I'm sure there are many people who have an HQL who have never taken another course or spent time at the range other than what was required to get it.


If that is your intent I would consider different criteria for dividing up your classes.

Two classes, one for beginner and one for moderate to experienced sounds like a good idea. HQL is irrelevant.

THIS^^^^+

One beginner’s class for newbs. Address all of the issues about introduction, safety, handling, and basic requirements of the state’s curriculum. And dispel some of the most common falsehoods/old wives tales that the excited new to the community folks bring with them.

One advanced class for owners with experience.
Address the state’s required curriculum and the most common bad habits and falsehoods found among the “experienced” crowd.

HQL simply means someone satisfied the state’s class time requirement once.

There are plenty of long time experience GOs who chose not to get the HQL… but can shoot a ragged hole from twenty five yards.

The two classes would both qualify for the state’s 16 hours. But the target audience (pardon the pun) would experience more actual learning and benefits from the course.

 

[Bullfrog]

The question is how do you decide who is what, there are inexperienced that think they are marksman, then there are others that would feel they do not fall into "experienced" category either. Unless he is going to "qualify" prospective students it will be tough to draw that line.

I don't disagree... sounds like a mess.

It seems to me self-identification would be better than categorizing strictly by HQL though.

By doing that you're going to have situations where you have prior police and infantry with 20+ years of training in the beginner class and Grandma Moses who did her required HQL "live fire", bought a firearm and never removed it from the box in the advanced class.

Does @Blaster229 have an HQL? Probably not, he wouldn't need it. Oh well, off to the beginner class with ye!

 

[Biggfoot44]

Answer #1A - Great ! The field is wide open for options of value added training that offers semi- serious training , that oh by the way also meets Md W&C cert .
Answer #1B - HQL status is Not the appropriate metric

Be very upfront in the course descriptions , and let the students self select .

I.e. , something like " This class is Not for new shooters . We will cover X, Y, and Z that is not required for basic certification . If you are experienced , and already ( whatever metaphor for basic Marksmanship skills ) , then this class is for you to step to the next level .

We welcome and encourage all new shooters and new gun owners . We encourage you to sign up for this Other Class , where we will patiently help you from the beginning up to your W&C certification . "

And , charge More for the more advanced class . Not to be so called profiteering , but your target audience will be glad for the value added training , and the rookies will seek the less expensive . You're just nudging them in their self selection .

 

[Crosseye Dominant]

State that to enter the advanced class everyone must be able to wrist flip closed a revolver and do a diving shoulder roll to get behind a barricade.

 

[Blaster229]

Does @Blaster229 have an HQL? Probably not, he wouldn't need it. Oh well, off to the beginner class with ye! 2:

I'm glad I don't need either class.

That being said, I'd also probably be bored in either experience level class if the instructor has less knowledge and experience than I do.
Quiet frankly, I'd enjoy being in the beginner class hoping I could help out.

 

[Slackdaddy]

Wife and I would gladly take a class for "Non beginners"
We are both mildly experienced shooters and have both had some professional training as well as HQL classes.
Wife shoots once a month with a women's group that has instructors.

Notice I did not say we are "experts" ,, but we will not be paying for and sitting through hours of "The pointy thing comes out this end"

 

[Blaster229]

Wife and I would gladly take a class for "Non beginners"
We are both mildly experienced shooters and have both had some professional training as well as HQL classes.
Wife shoots once a month with a women's group that has instructors.

Notice I did not say we are "experts" ,, but we will not be paying for and sitting through hours of "The pointy thing comes out this end"

You'd have a fun time with some getting off the X drills, shooting from retention up on the target, laying on the ground like you're in bed, grabbing your pistol and shooting, off hand shooting and shooting while sitting down. Such fun and practical stuff.

 

[JohnnyE]

My first thoughts are having HQL does not equal 'experienced'.

Not having an HQL does not equal 'inexperienced'.

A lot of people who have been around firearms for a long time opted not to get an HQL, or are exempt (MIL, LEO, etc). I'm sure there are many people who have an HQL who have never taken another course or spent time at the range other than what was required to get it.


If that is your intent I would consider different criteria for dividing up your classes.

Two classes, one for beginner and one for moderate to experienced sounds like a good idea. HQL is irrelevant.

THIS^^^^+

One beginner’s class for newbs. Address all of the issues about introduction, safety, handling, and basic requirements of the state’s curriculum. And dispel some of the most common falsehoods/old wives tales that the excited new to the community folks bring with them.

One advanced class for owners with experience.
Address the state’s required curriculum and the most common bad habits and falsehoods found among the “experienced” crowd.

HQL simply means someone satisfied the state’s class time requirement once.

There are plenty of long time experience GOs who chose not to get the HQL… but can shoot a ragged hole from twenty five yards.

The two classes would both qualify for the state’s 16 hours. But the target audience (pardon the pun) would experience more actual learning and benefits from the course.

I could not agree more.

I have an HQL but "only" 53 years of shooting experience under my belt, Utah non-resident permit and several years' experience carrying on it in states recognizing it. I cannot imagine being in a class where the difference between a revolver and semiauto needs to be explained, how to make each safe, and hear questions like "I think I understand the difference between single and double action...is there a triple action?"

As others observe, figuring out how to group folks is key. Self-identification is a better than HQL possession.

 

[RoadDawg]

I could not agree more.

I have an HQL but "only" 53 years of shooting experience under my belt, Utah non-resident permit and several years' experience carrying on it in states recognizing it. I cannot imagine being in a class where the difference between a revolver and semiauto needs to be explained, how to make each safe, and hear questions like "I think I understand the difference between single and double action...is there a triple action?"

As others observe, figuring out how to group folks is key. Self-identification is a better than HQL possession.

Self identification will work for many folks. But it would help if the person signing up the students, were to have a brief questionnaire available. Ask the right questions… and assign the class level based upon the prospect’s answers. This would save even more aggravation and time, by placing the folks who are better educated and experienced into an upper class. Thus, the curriculum could be tailored to a greater benefit to those attending.

We all know the drill… Some self identified “shooters” have been shooting for twenty years… and missed the target both times.

Others, like yourself, have actual experience.

 

[Biggfoot44]

Aw man ! Now you have me trying to think out a Tripple action firearm .

Bingo , I remember one now !

At least at one point Mossberg offered a DAO M500 shotgun , with a DAO trigger . One action to pump round in chamber , two actions with DAO trigger , so a Triple Action !

Same idea for a suppressed pistol with a slide lock , and DAO fire control .

 

[JohnnyE]

Self identification will work for many folks. But it would help if the person signing up the students, were to have a brief questionnaire available. Ask the right questions… and assign the class level based upon the prospect’s answers. This would save even more aggravation and time, by placing the folks who are better educated and experienced into an upper class. Thus, the curriculum could be tailored to a greater benefit to those attending.

We all know the drill… Some self identified “shooters” have been shooting for twenty years… and missed the target both times.

Others, like yourself, have actual experience.

I'm all in on answering a questionnaire. As you indicate, the trick is designing questions that help group people meaningfully. Useful, objective questions like "do you hold a concealed carry permit in any U.S. jurisdiction" and "have you carried concealed", with check boxes for YES and NO, are simple. Have you shot competitively, even at an informal gun club competition? Have you taken any firearms training (provide a list of recognized courses by NRA and others). How often do you shoot? What types of arms do you shoot?

As you can see I'm spit-balling here. I think it is important to come up with something because on my short list of criteria for selecting a class you'll find: dates, location, instructor reputation, cost, and, yes, will my classmates have a similar level of experience as I do.

 

[RoadDawg]

I'm all in on answering a questionnaire. As you indicate, the trick is designing questions that help group people meaningfully. Useful, objective questions like "do you hold a concealed carry permit in any U.S. jurisdiction" and "have you carried concealed", with check boxes for YES and NO, are simple. Have you shot competitively, even at an informal gun club competition? Have you taken any firearms training (provide a list of recognized courses by NRA and others). How often do you shoot? What types of arms do you shoot?

As you can see I'm spit-balling here. I think it is important to come up with something because on my short list of criteria for selecting a class you'll find: dates, location, instructor reputation, cost, and, yes, will my classmates have a similar level of experience as I do.

Ed Zack Lee

 

[JohnnyE]

Ed Zack Lee

I looked him up. No joy. Who is he?

 

[RoadDawg]

I looked him up. No joy. Who is he?

A most agreeable fellow.

 

[JohnnyE]

A most agreeable fellow.

Someone told me today was National Bourbon Day. It turns out they were wrong. It's actually in June. I found out too late.

 

[Bullfrog]

I looked him up. No joy. Who is he?

He goes by many names.

Some people call him Ed Zachary.

 

[RoadDawg]

Someone told me today was National Bourbon Day. It turns out they were wrong. It's actually in June. I found out too late.

NBD is every day of the year.
Celebrate responsibly.