Time for a new Law

[Deacon51]

First, I want to explain my point of view.

I think that if you carry in public, you should have passed a test to ensure you understand your responsibilities to your fellow citizens. That's why I think that a 8 hour class that includes demistrating your ability to fire a gun is a go idea before people go around armed in public.

Do you guys think a new Shall Issue law with a training and testing requirement would have a better chance?

 

[fivepointstar]

First, I want to explain my point of view.

I think that if you carry in public, you should have passed a test to ensure you understand your responsibilities to your fellow citizens. That's why I think that a 8 hour class that includes demistrating your ability to fire a gun is a go idea before people go around armed in public.

Do you guys think a new Shall Issue law with a training and testing requirement would have a better chance?

Absolutely....before you get a driver's license you have to prove some sort of profiecency and understanding of the laws of the state before being issued a license. I don't see why this should not be any different.

 

[K Train]

how about before being allowed to reproduce.....

 

[Qbeam]

Should be a standard, not an option. It would prevent some of the folks from using it for indimidation effect, knowing that they can get reported for brandishing a weapon. Most politicians are under the impression that CCWs would be given out like business licenses (anybody can get one). They need to be educated and convinced that a training class and range time would be effective in producing responsible CCW Holders.

 

[fivepointstar]

how about before being allowed to reproduce.....

I've been an advocate of that for a long time...some people should never be allowed to reproduce especially they are accepting housing and food funding from the gov't, habitual drunkard or history of drug abuse, or have a history of child sex abuse. Don't get me started on this one...

 

[Jaybeez]

Driving is a privilege.

Keeping and BEARING arms is a right.



I understand where you are coming from, and many states do require training for carry permits. But there are enough laws regarding guns. Anyone with a C&R knows this when their "atf phone book" comes in the mail. I honestly dont think more laws and regulation solves any problems.

 

[Qbeam]

No one is denying that it is a right to bear arms, but some folks bear arms differently than others. This would set a standard so that some tard doesn't mess it up for the rest of us because he didn't have training. The little old ladies, inexperienced firearms owners, and folks not as experienced as some of the members here would need training so they can exercise that right to bear arms. If he or she messes up after having training, then they have to live with the consequences of their action, with should be explained in the class.

 

[Jaybeez]

No one is denying that it is a right to bear arms, but some folks bear arms differently than others. This would set a standard so that some tard doesn't mess it up for the rest of us because he didn't have training. The little old ladies, inexperienced firearms owners, and folks not as experienced as some of the members here would need training so they can exercise that right to bear arms. If he or she messes up after having training, then they have to live with the consequences of their action, with should be explained in the class.

I'm sorry, you are going to have to take a $300 8 hour class before you speak your opinion.

 

[Qbeam]

Jaybeez,

You would rather we just give them to folks with no training? Doesn't sound responsible, or maybe I'm missing something? Is it because you have to pay for the right to carry arms that is already guaranteed in the Constitution? I seem to be missing something.

Qbeam

 

[Jaybeez]

Jaybeez,

You would rather we just give them to folks with no training? Doesn't sound responsible, or maybe I'm missing something? Is it because you have to pay for the right to carry arms that is already guaranteed in the Constitution? I seem to be missing something.

Qbeam

YES!

You are allowed to buy firearms with no training. Everyday some turd carries illegally or commits a crime with a handgun, giving us all a bad name. Should you have to take a training class to purchase a gun and keep it n your home? Just to make sure you don't use it to threaten your kids into doing their homework, drilling holes to hang a picture, or change the channel on the TV when you cant find the clicker?

What you are missing the the concept of a Right (capital "R"). You are letting the emotional "feeling" that something isn't right cloud your mind.


I'm sure gun shops and NRA instructors will be all for this idea.

 

[alucard0822]

I do think that at least basic training is a must for anyone looking to carry concealed, but the devil is in the details, how much will the class cost?, will the training requirements change over time?, what are acceptable forms of training? Do CHL holders have to ceritfy every year? how available are the classes?, and so on. MD has a training requirement for handgun purchases, and that training certificate fulfills the training requirement that a lot of states have to issue a permit, FL included. Problem is that watching a 20 minute video is close to worthless, and serves as nothing more than gun owner registration. FL and PA provide a copy of all accliable carry laws with the application, and make it clear that it is the applicant's responsibility to read and understand them.

You would think that there would be all sorts of issues and problems in a state like PA where 1 in 21 citizens have a current LTCF, permits take 3 days to issue, cost $25 every 5 years, are available to almost any law abiding citizen, have fewer questions than a 4473, and have no training requirement whatsoever, thing is problems are just about unheard of. The gang banger or crack head didn't have to take a class, fill out a 4473, or even go through the relatively minor hassle of obtaining a valid LTCF, while I agree fundementally that anyone looking to carry, or even buy a gun should have some form of training, I even help out teaching CC classes at my local range, the potential for abuse by making some arbitrary form of trainig mandatry are just too great, and unless there are strict course guidelines imposed, it is hard to ensure that all acceptable training is up to snuff.

 

[Qbeam]

Jaybeez,

YES! That it is a Right rather than a privelage.

You are allowed to buy firearms with no training. For pistol purchases, Hawaii and Maryland make you take classes.

Everyday some turd carries illegally or commits a crime with a handgun, giving us all a bad name. Which makes it harder for everyday folks (Law Abiding Citizens) to get CCWs or Open Carry due to the media bias

Should you have to take a training class to purchase a gun and keep it n your home? It depends on how you feel about training and keeping in practice. Using a firearm requires some skill, if you don't practice, or keep familiar with it, you will be at a disadvantage.

Just to make sure you don't use it to threaten your kids into doing their homework, drilling holes to hang a picture, or change the channel on the TV when you cant find the clicker? Don't know where this is coming from, but never thought about using a firearm for these situations.

What you are missing the the concept of a Right (capital "R"). You are letting the emotional "feeling" that something isn't right cloud your mind. It is a Right, and it needs to be exercised. Unfortunately, people put barriers in place to prevent you from exercising that Right. The original post is trying to create a means for overcoming that barrier.


I'm sure gun shops and NRA instructors will be all for this idea.

Yeah, they will be for it, but they seem to be qualified for the job. They may make some money, but if the AWB goes into effect, they may need to supplement their income.

I understand the Rights issue, but it is what it is. There are laws on the books that currently prevent you from carrying in the State of Maryland. This would allow you to carry, and give you your Right to carry back.

I would love to not have to pay for a class, and get a CCW or Open Carry. Do you forsee it happening in the future? Which method do you think the politicians would rather look at, a freebie, or a revenue generating source? It's not the way I would like it to be, but until we get pro 2A politicians in, it is what it is.

thanks,

Q

 

[rambling_one]

Vermont gets along just fine without a training requirement. Citizens of this great nation should not be compelled to request government approval to exercise a right. Abdicate a right and it becomes a privilege.

 

[txiyo]

I've wrote several detailed laws and training objectives, but no one in the state Legislator would listen.

I think because at the end of my program you'd be able to carry everywhere police can and government buildings i.e. court houses that banned guns would have to have a registry and holding system for citizens carrying.

I believe that a lot of legislators are scared of citizens utilizing the Second Amendment and want the majority to forget that it exists. That is why my bill also had a secondary school firearms education section.

 

[Jaybeez]

Jaybeez,


Yeah, they will be for it, but they seem to be qualified for the job. They may make some money, but if the AWB goes into effect, they may need to supplement their income.

I understand the Rights issue, but it is what it is. There are laws on the books that currently prevent you from carrying in the State of Maryland. This would allow you to carry, and give you your Right to carry back.

I would love to not have to pay for a class, and get a CCW or Open Carry. Do you forsee it happening in the future? Which method do you think the politicians would rather look at, a freebie, or a revenue generating source? It's not the way I would like it to be, but until we get pro 2A politicians in, it is what it is.

thanks,

Q

**** Compromise.
Conservatives, Republicans, and Gun Owners have been compromising themselves into a corner for decades. We are going to compromise our kids into a police state. We try to be reasonable and find the "middle ground" and compromise, but the next day the antis/socialists/communists are back and pushing the original agenda again. They trick us into accepting their master plan one step at a time. I've never seen an anti compromise. Everytime "we" compromise the Brady's send out their "victory" emails.

No law can "give me my rights back", because my Rights are not given to me by those that write laws.

Any new laws would just add more hoops for those of us that are already jumping through too many hoops. Why punish the good guys?

 

[mike_in_md]

First, I want to explain my point of view.

I think that if you carry in public, you should have passed a test to ensure you understand your responsibilities to your fellow citizens. That's why I think that a 8 hour class that includes demistrating your ability to fire a gun is a go idea before people go around armed in public.

Do you guys think a new Shall Issue law with a training and testing requirement would have a better chance?

The test that you have to pass is a background check that ensures that you are not irresponsible, but I think that watching a video specific to CCW laws as part of the CCW application process seems reasonable and would not violate rights. The video could be similar to the existing requirement in Maryland that requires you to watch that video before you can buy a gun. This way it wouldn't cost extra money or delay to the process. I do believe that more extensive CCW training should be encourged, and as a possible benefit of more extensive training perhaps reducing restrictions on the CCW permit, or some other carrot should be offered. In the end, I think most people serious about CCW would take an extensive course if it were reasonably priced and widely available.

 

[Old Salty Dog]

**** Compromise.
Conservatives, Republicans, and Gun Owners have been compromising themselves into a corner for decades. We are going to compromise our kids into a police state. We try to be reasonable and find the "middle ground" and compromise, but the next day the antis/socialists/communists are back and pushing the original agenda again. They trick us into accepting their master plan one step at a time. I've never seen an anti compromise. Everytime "we" compromise the Brady's send out their "victory" emails.

No law can "give me my rights back", because my Rights are not given to me by those that write laws.

Any new laws would just add more hoops for those of us that are already jumping through too many hoops. Why punish the good guys?

IMHO requiring training isn't a compromise. It's just plain smart for the reasons outlined above.
No, cars aren't mentioned in the bill of rights, but why to we require training and an exam before we license someone to drive?? Why, because you can kill people with those things.........

The post here

http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=13719&highlight=coping

on coping with concealed carry makes some excellent points for training that could - if it existed - give both LEOs and law abiding citizens a good understanding of responsibilities and how best to interact with each other in those situations where law abiding citizens carrying encounter LEOs, uniformed or otherwise.

Let's make the training real, meaningful and helpful.

 

[Falkus]

Since the topic about the class to obtain the permit, My Post might not make any sense at this moment since it might be a rant/venting out without spelling grammer check

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I wouldn’t mind doing this, but there is one thing that I want address...

There are few members that have met me and aware that I don’t speak, I use my hands to communicate with my native language” (American Sign Language). Yes, I am fully deaf. I am one of those guys who looks at the range officers and say, "those ears are not worth to save"

That brings up a question that I have for someone like me?

How would someone like me to take the course or get the proper training when there is no interrupters provided due to lacking funds, or it’s a volunteer organization that doesn’t have the funds to pay for one? Even with the American Disability Act law, Not many can’t meet the requirements and I am a understanding person because we aren’t born with a silver spoon.

Its even frustrating for me to take the NRA Pistol Course which I had get someone to do it one on one with me in VA while living in Maryland with repeating calls to the NRA to do something about it for almost a year of trying to find someone, I would love to become one of the NRA Instructor myself so that I can give my peers the education which would benefit them but again, How will educate me since its all in spoken lanauge.

A question for you all to think about? How can someone like me take the class if it’s in spoken English? I might as well just to sleep in the class because i would have met the requirement for "Showing up" and just read the materials, take the test and be done with it in 30 mins instead of staying there for the full 8 hours.

The whole point is that since I am aware that this world isn’t fair...but I am not in favor to have requrieemnts that cant be met. I WANT and WILL GET MY PERMIT NO MATTER WHAT

Just don’t want to have the MSP to "Disapproved" for my CCW because I didn’t meet the requirements cuz those Ear Plugs should have been worn during the range time...

 

[fivepointstar]

Confusious say:

"If you want to convince the people that lean to the left, you have to aim for the middle to show some balance in your reason."

 

[organized_mayhem]

Class or no class there still will be some "tard" out there to mess things up. Taking a class would not keep some idiot from carrying. If that were true we would have the best drivers in the world. While its nice to hear that someone had some formal training you can't fix stupid.