Wear & Carry expiration date - should I delay submitting?

[AKbythebay]

My understanding is the W&C permit expires at the end of your birthday month two years later. My birthday is in October. If my fuzzy math is right, if I get approved in November I get basically another full year on the house before I need to renew. Two years and then the following Oct.

Is it worth delaying my application a few weeks, into August, in the hopes that it get approved in November instead of October?

Or any I overthinking this and should just apply as soon as possible?

I already got my Livescan done so the 30 day limit on that puts me at August 10th for the last day I could apply without having to get new prints. Curious to hear your thoughts?

 

[6-Pack]

I heard that if it expires then you have to apply for a new permit, along with the training and fingerprints.

 

[lazarus]

I believe how you stated it is how it works. I would not delay. We have no idea how long approvals now will take. Delaying risks a many months long approval process and MGA f-ing over the approval process before you are ever approved. Plus the number of people applying is likely to continue going up with many trainers holding bigger classes. So if you submitted today, it might take 80 days (no clue I am stuff up), but I’d you wait 2 or 3 more weeks it might take 100. Or 120. Or 150. Because they have a much larger backlog.

More time on the renewal is nice, but odds are good when and how to renew will be different between what MGA does and lawsuits the next 2 years.

High risk vs needing to take a 8hr class that you will probably be able to find for $60-150 if you shop around when the time comes.

PS I already have to wait almost 2 more weeks to finish day 2 before I can hit submit and it’s bugging me!

 

[AKbythebay]

I heard that if it expires then you have to apply for a new permit, along with the training and fingerprints.

My understanding is the training is good for either one or two years, independent of the prints

I believe how you stated it is how it works. I would not delay. We have no idea how long approvals now will take. Delaying risks a many months long approval process and MGA f-ing over the approval process before you are ever approved. Plus the number of people applying is likely to continue going up with many trainers holding bigger classes. So if you submitted today, it might take 80 days (no clue I am stuff up), but I’d you wait 2 or 3 more weeks it might take 100. Or 120. Or 150. Because they have a much larger backlog.

More time on the renewal is nice, but odds are good when and how to renew will be different between what MGA does and lawsuits the next 2 years.

High risk vs needing to take a 8hr class that you will probably be able to find for $60-150 if you shop around when the time comes.

PS I already have to wait almost 2 more weeks to finish day 2 before I can hit submit and it’s bugging me!

All good points. After waiting until my 50's to be able to apply in the great state of Maryland, my overriding thought is just get the damn thing in. But the potential for nearly an extra year before renewal and training and all is a big draw to just waiting an extra three weeks before submitting.

Do you know is the 30 day livescan expiration based on submission date or acceptance date. I'm assuming it's based on the date you submit your application but figure I should still make sure.

 

[teratos]

Do you know is the 30 day livescan expiration based on submission date or acceptance date. I'm assuming it's based on the date you submit your application but figure I should still make sure.

Submission.

 

[swinokur]

MSP still says they want prints submitted with your app no more than 72 hours after the scan

https://mdsp.maryland.gov/Organization/Documents/NewFingerprintRules.2.pdf

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[AKbythebay]

MSP still says they want prints submitted with your app no more than 72 hours after the scan

https://mdsp.maryland.gov/Organization/Documents/NewFingerprintRules.2.pdf

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I uploaded them to my in-progress application the day I got them, last Monday July 11. Hope that's good enough?

 

[camo556]

Don't try to game the timing. Just get your damn permit app in. The MGA may change the rules on renewals, making all your overthinking for nothing. We have no idea what the approval time is now; chances are good that by August it will be higher. Or it could turn out to be 30 days like the HQL, meaning you apply in august and it in Sept.

Bottom line: Just get your damn permit app in.

 

[swinokur]

Don't try to game the timing. Just get your damn permit app in. The MGA may change the rules on renewals, making all your overthinking for nothing. We have no idea what the approval time is now; chances are good that by August it will be higher. Or it could turn out to be 30 days like the HQL, meaning you apply in august and it in Sept.

Bottom line: Just get your damn permit app in.

^^^^^^^^^^

This


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[swinokur]

I uploaded them to my in-progress application the day I got them, last Monday July 11. Hope that's good enough?

No idea but as stated just get the damn thing in


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[AKbythebay]

Submission.

Thanks

And does the <90 days clock begin at submission or acceptance?

 

[lazarus]

Just to continue echoing, do not over think it. Whatever is now, is likely to be different in 2 years. Either because of MGA or because of the courts. It will hopefully be better, but it could be worse. It might take YEARS to get things fixed through the courts. It is encouraging on this decision and a likelihood that SCOTUS will start stepping in quickly if the inferior courts don't get the message. There are certainly some worst-case scenarios where it won't be (fixed), but those are too unthinkable to spend too much time worrying about.

But right now, the most important part is, if you want a permit, do everything and submitted it as soon as you reasonably can. Waiting will certainly ensure you have to wait longer. Now if you wait long enough, there is a chance MSP will be caught up, or the courts have ordered them to approve within 30 days no matter what, or whatever. Who knows. But judicial changes to any of the permitting process are unlikely until next calendar year at the earliest. Legislative changes to the permitting process are reasonably likely (but not a certainty) in this next session.

MSP getting through what is a growing backlog as applications pickup steam faster and faster? Not likely anytime soon. It sounds like MSP has drastically expanded both hiring and training to other MSP personnel to process applications as fast as reasonably possible (or at least a fast as sticking with what process they do have and have decided to follow. In slight fairness, they don't seem to be intentionally dragging this all out or they wouldn't have expanded from like a dozen license personnel to what seems to be 30ish dedicated with some new hires and like a few score other MSP personnel who are probably working part time on it now).

Anyway, the 90 days is just how long you have before you can file an appeal with an administrative judge. Which might then take a couple of months. Assuming THEY are not swamped. At that point, your only real recourse is you can finally file suit in district court after something like 6 months after you originally applied. MSP seems to be good faith approaching this to try to get people approved within 90 days. I don't think they want the legal mess it'll likely turn in to quickly if they aren't managing that.

But that doesn't mean they'll succeed if it turns out by the middle of September they have 200,000 hand gun permit applications in the system...

So try to make yours application #35,000 or whatever, rather than #88,000 by waiting 3 more weeks (or whatever). Almost an extra year would be nice, but there is little guarantee you'll have it. MGA might change it to annual renewal from the date it was issued even for existing permits. Or in 2 years, the courts might tell Maryland that permits should never have to be renewed. Or 5 years should be the standard. Or whatever. How often a permit needs to be renewed is almost certainly going to be a controversy before the courts somewhere as HI attempts to push 6 month renewals and NY I think just did annual? That might not make it to SCOTUS and thus be binding nationwide on whatever is decided. But it also might.

 

[lazarus]

Thanks

And does the <90 days clock begin at submission or acceptance?

Pretty sure it is acceptance. But either way, keep in mind, that only gives you the option to appeal to an admin law judge. And if yours gets to >90 days, you are likely to be one of thousands all trying to appeal...which also means you'll likely be waiting the max to have a hearing, if you even manage to get a hearing, which means you could then sue in district court and accept hiring a lawyer and those costs...and

Not saying don't pursue remedies available under the law. Just that it is going to take a long time if it does go past 90 days to resolve. And more likely someone will be filing suit and I suspect the courts are not going to be happy. So will likely order the state to do something rather than get deluged with thousands of administrative hearings and dozens, scores, or hundreds of lawsuits over the matter.

 

[AKbythebay]

I appreciate all the comments and information @lazarus

Definitely leaning towards applying sooner rather than later

 

[AOW162435]

Don't try to game the timing. Just get your damn permit app in. The MGA may change the rules on renewals, making all your overthinking for nothing. We have no idea what the approval time is now; chances are good that by August it will be higher. Or it could turn out to be 30 days like the HQL, meaning you apply in august and it in Sept.

Bottom line: Just get your damn permit app in.

Completely agree.



Andreas

 

[KevinK]

Don't try to game the timing. Just get your damn permit app in. The MGA may change the rules on renewals, making all your overthinking for nothing. We have no idea what the approval time is now; chances are good that by August it will be higher. Or it could turn out to be 30 days like the HQL, meaning you apply in august and it in Sept.

Bottom line: Just get your damn permit app in.

I'm guessing this is a word play joke on Fat Larry's 'just wear the damn mask'

 

[ShafTed]

Initial permit is good for 2 years, renewals thereafter are 3 years. Trying to play calendar games to get another year by delaying renewal starts the 2-year clock (for initial permit) again so even if you get an extra year out of the "new" permit, you gain nothing over renewing now and getting 3 years, anyway.

Don't delay, renew today!

 

[swinokur]

And also don’t delay

APPLY TODAY!


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[Stoveman]

My understanding is the W&C permit expires at the end of your birthday month two years later. My birthday is in October. If my fuzzy math is right, if I get approved in November I get basically another full year on the house before I need to renew. Two years and then the following Oct.

Is it worth delaying my application a few weeks, into August, in the hopes that it get approved in November instead of October?

Or any I overthinking this and should just apply as soon as possible?

I already got my Livescan done so the 30 day limit on that puts me at August 10th for the last day I could apply without having to get new prints. Curious to hear your thoughts?

I'll be the lone voice in the wilderness and say if you don't mind the wait go ahead and play the game. The MGA isn't going to hold a special session and muck things up any further and the MSP are automatons. The worst thing that could happen is you lose and get your permit faster.

When I got mine originally I did the same thing and ended up getting 34 months on my initial.

 

[AKbythebay]

I'll be the lone voice in the wilderness and say if you don't mind the wait go ahead and play the game. The MGA isn't going to hold a special session and muck things up any further and the MSP are automatons. The worst thing that could happen is you lose and get your permit faster.

When I got mine originally I did the same thing and ended up getting 34 months on my initial.

That's kind of what I was thinking. Worst case I apply three weeks later than I would have. Best case I get an extra 11 1/2 months before my first renewal. It's certainly possible that I wait three weeks and still get approved before the end of October but it would give me a better shot at a Nov start date. Still contemplating...

Of course as others have pointed out, the crush of applicants over the next month could create a bigger delay and may get hung up in limbo for a while

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