So a biological organism cannot be considered to be a machine? Only machines can be considered "assault weapons"?Simple: You are comparing biological organisms to machines. Yes, human DNA is over 99% similar to that of chimps, but we’re genetically incompatible with them because that’s not how biology works.
On the other hand, “assault weapons” are machines. I have AR-15s in my safe where nearly all of the major parts are compatible (i.e., interchangeable) with a select-fire M4, other than the trigger and sear. For all intents and purposes: My Colt 6920 SOCOM is almost identical specs to an issue M4A1.
See the difference?
So a biological organism cannot be considered to be a machine? Only machines can be considered "assault weapons"?
So the one person on this whole board that swears there are “assault weapons” refuses to define it… I’ve never used the ignore button before but
The book you posted with the firearms you listed, is one example, and yet you claim that makes the definition for the entire industry. Please provide further cites for the use of the term by the industry, other than one book.Got it, understood. So you’re telling me that the image of the front cover of the “Gun Digest Book of Assault Weapons” that I posted on Page 1 was also imaginary?
Also: Functional differences between different types of firearms clearly are not imaginary. I don’t think…
What I said earlier (and also what MexicanBob said earlier): The term "assault weapon" wasn't invented by the VPC or the Brady Bunch. It was first used in our community, and the other side simply got it from us and gave it a negative connotation. In the 1980s, it was considered a useful marketing term by the gun industry.
Also: The two guns that you see on the book jacket are not automatic weapons. Top one is an Uzi Carbine (you can tell by selector markings) that is fitted with the shorter display barrel that came standard with those guns, to make them look like SMGs. The bottom one is an Uzi Pistol. Both semi-auto Title I firearms, not NFA versions.
Yep, and so does the MDAG who has written a legal opinion that unless a firearm is 100% parts compatible, then it does not equal the other.Simple: You are comparing biological organisms to machines. Yes, human DNA is over 99% similar to that of chimps, but we’re genetically incompatible with them because that’s not how biology works.
On the other hand, “assault weapons” are machines. I have AR-15s in my safe where nearly all of the major parts are compatible (i.e., interchangeable) with a select-fire M4, other than the trigger and sear. For all intents and purposes: My Colt 6920 SOCOM is almost identical specs to an issue M4A1.
See the difference?
Cartridge | .30 Carbine |
---|---|
Action | Gas-operated (short-stroke piston), rotating bolt |
Rate of fire |
|
Muzzle velocity | 1,990 ft/s (607 m/s) |
Effective firing range | 219–328 yd (200–300 m)[10] |
Feed system | 15- or 30-round detachable box magazine |
Sights |
|
What I said earlier (and also what MexicanBob said earlier): The term "assault weapon" wasn't invented by the VPC or the Brady Bunch.
Exactly.As it EXISTS, "Assault weapon" is simply a political/propaganda term for any arm hoplophobes are trying to ban and demonize.
What is the US legal definition of an assault weapon? If it isn't legally defined at this time I would suggest that we define it as a funnel cake.
The book you posted with the firearms you listed, is one example, and yet you claim that makes the definition for the entire industry. Please provide further cites for the use of the term by the industry, other than one book.
Fitted with a shorter display barrel? So they made an SBR but it's okay because they promise not to shoot it? (that ain't a firearm brace folded up in the rear)
From your reference:
An assault weapon can be a shotgun,rimfire,or center fire. Semi auto or select fire. (text, lower right corner).
They can be a short barreled semi auto rifle (the full sized uzi), or a pistol caliber carbine, or a pistol (in the case of the micro uzi)
So an assault weapon, using YOUR reference is: Any semi auto, any select fire, any shotgun, any rimfire, any center fire, pistols, pistol caliber carbines and SBRs. (or maybe SBRs unless you shoot them. Or maybe Carbines with slugged display barrels)
That sure narrows it down.
Pretty sure a majority of the firearms in America are assault weapons then.
Yep, and so does the MDAG who has written a legal opinion that unless a firearm is 100% parts compatible, then it does not equal the other.
So, your AR15 and your Colt 6920 ARE NOT equal to the M4 and thus NOT a select fire capable firearm, and ARE NOT assault weapons.
And I quote you "Also: Functional differences between different types of firearms clearly are not imaginary. I don’t think…" But yet you claim that differences do not matter when it comes to defining assault weapons.
Make up your mind, either differences matter or they don't. But whatever your opinion, the legal opinion in Maryland is that differences do matter and one does not equal the other.
Legally it is whatever the legislature decides the definition is. As a legislative body, they can change it on a whim and change it according to situation and circumstance. They could declare apples and peaches to be assault rifles, cars or spacecraft. Doesn't make it so in the real world, but does in the legal world.
And the swastika wasn't invented by the Nazis.
Are you going to say that because of it's origins that it isn't a hateful symbol?
Assault weapon of choice used in deadliest mass murder ever committed on American soil. 9/11/01Fitted with a shorter display barrel? So they made an SBR but it's okay because they promise not to shoot it? (that ain't a firearm brace folded up in the rear)
From your reference:
An assault weapon can be a shotgun,rimfire,or center fire. Semi auto or select fire. (text, lower right corner).
They can be a short barreled semi auto rifle (the full sized uzi), or a pistol caliber carbine, or a pistol (in the case of the micro uzi)
So an assault weapon, using YOUR reference is: Any semi auto, any select fire, any shotgun, any rimfire, any center fire, pistols, pistol caliber carbines and SBRs. (or maybe SBRs unless you shoot them. Or maybe Carbines with slugged display barrels)
That sure narrows it down.
Pretty sure a majority of the firearms in America are assault weapons then.
Actually the anti-2A community, and specifically the Brady Foundation came out and admitted they created the term to drum up press support for their initiatives in the 90's. So I don't need those here, claiming it was created by the anti-gun groups, to provide proof when the anti-gun groups have freely admitted it.Right, but I didn't claim that it's "the definition for the entire industry;" that wasn't the purpose of citing that example. Rather, I am trying to refute those who are mindlessly repeating the 2A community talking point that the term "assault weapon" was concocted by the anti-gun left to describe firearms which "look scary." Out of curiosity, why aren't you asking them to provide evidence that the gun controllers came up with the term? Are only they allowed to post factually questionable statements without proof? Aren't you holding me to a higher standard than them?
The TEC-9 and the UZI are both banned in Maryland as Assault Pistols as defined by Maryland State Statute.Also: Gun Digest was essentially the bible of the 2A community in the days before the interwebs/gunterwebs came into existence, and the book that I posted is the first in a series that spans several decades (I also own the 5th Edition of this book, though at least that one featured a select-fire M4 on the cover). It was a fairly authoritative source with authoritative authors (for the time) that was widely read. It would be interesting to know if Jack Lewis got any hate mail telling him, "You moron, stop calling them 'assault weapons' - or I'll use my fist as one!"
But, since you asked, here's another ad for the TEC-9 showing description as an "assault-type pistol". How many more do I need to post?
View attachment 456355
NO, the MDAG (Maryland Attorney General), you know, the leading law enforcement agent in the state of Maryland that actually opines on Maryland State Statutes?Elsewhere (other threads), I've mentioned that I don't exactly hold MGA (MDGA?) in high regard for their firearms knowledge, which is why I find FSA 2013 to be so arbitrary and downright stupid, even for the purpose that it was (ostensibly) written/signed into law. But I'm not sure how their definition is relevant to a comparison of Title I and Title II firearms (which it was not intended to address).
According to the MD AG (Maryland Attorney General), since it's not 100% parts compatible one does not equal the other. So in Maryland, your AR15 and Colt 6920 are NOT assault rifles, no matter how much you think they are.My Colt 6920 SOCOM is certainly 99% interchangeable with a military M4A1 (SOCOM barrel profile). I don't see how it's not an assault rifle?
Buy me a beer and I will fill you in on the history, because the issue you mention above didn't start in 2013, it actually started with the regualted rifle/shotgun list in 1989.You're also forgetting that these are the same people whose BS law tells me that my rifle (with a heavy SOCOM-profile barrel) is not an "assault weapon," and is still legal to buy/own in MD, but the exact same gun with an M4 GOV-profile barrel is an "assault weapon" (ergo, is banned if bought after 2013)?
While bust and FA certainly have a purpose, those functions are not concentrated on in the marksmanship portion of basic. The use of them is NOT discouraged, the use is just not concentrated on as a general use item.Negative. What I said specifically is that I do not regard select-fire capability as a "significant capability differentiator" (quote). That wording implies that I see it as a capability difference. But, since you raise a (semi)-valid point, I'm happy to elaborate on my position. As I mentioned elsewhere in my post: Full-auto functionality in a rifle can be useful, but only for a handful of limited purposes, and then, only in the hands of someone who is a more experienced/advanced shooter. Whereas semi-automatic fire takes far less skill/experience to master, and has far more uses. So, while I'll stop short of saying that full-auto doesn't matter or doesn't represent a capability difference, I'll say that its utility is a bit more limited than semi-auto fire.
The crux of my argument - which I prefer you not overlook - is that in the U.S. military, full-auto and burst are discouraged, and not widely used (which is not to say never, just not often). That has been my understanding based on what I have read, what I've seen on firearms channels, and also what a few acquaintances who served have told me. I've even seen veterans on Arfcom who have said that they would take their personal AR to war if they could, because the burst/auto capability on their service rifle didn't matter to them.
IMHO, the "gun control" proponents want to ban/remove/confiscate/destroy all SEMI-AUTOMATIC firearms that can fire rapidly into a crowded space. They use the terms "assault rifle/assault weapon" interchangeably, because they don't actually care about the technical details.As I think you've seen from this thread so far - depending on who you ask, there is either a strict definition that says "assault weapons" can be select-fire guns only, or it's just a term that the gun controllers made up to describe scary guns.
FYI for all hands:Actually the anti-2A community, and specifically the Brady Foundation came out and admitted they created the term to drum up press support for their initiatives in the 90's.
There Really Truly * iS NO SUCH THING * . Seriously .
I really wish I had a time machine to go back to the 1980's to bitch slap the Editor at Digest Books Inc that made up that sensational title to spur sales of that book .