Widebody 1911 in IDPA/USPSA

[stu929]

Does anyone here shoot a double stack 1911 in IDPA/USPSA? If so what caliber?

I decided I wanted build a 1911 for the hell of it and I have a Caspian Double stack cut for a ramped barrel and Im trying to decide how to finish it. Im not currently involved in IDPA mostly due to work always seeming to get in the way but have been jonesing to try a match. Ive taken pistol classes and do enjoy action shoot, just have limited experience currently.

I have heard arguments for 40 because it can be loaded up or down for minor major. Ive also heard many arguments for 9mm due to the extra capacity and pure joy of no recoil.

For what its worth I have the ability to load for 9MM/40S&W/45ACP so that part doesnt really matter.

So anyway what say you?


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[davsco]

a widebody (eg 2011) is generally in idpa's ESP division. there are rules regarding size, bushing v bull barrel, full dust cover etc, so not every widebody is legal. mag capacity isn't an issue as in the most generous division you can only load to 10+1. so 9mm is hands down the favorite but if you handload and can do 40 minor, that won't hurt you competitively from excessive recoil potentially hindering fast followup shots.

in uspsa, you'd probably be in limited or limited 10 division. if you shoot major power factor (over 165, calc'd as bullet wt x velocity, which basically equals the physics momentum formula), you get a scoring advantage. if you shoot minor you don't get that advantage. so 9 is scored as minor and of course so is weaker 40 loads.

so if you can handload 40, that's probably the caliber to get as you can download it in idpa, 3 gun, etc and then add some powder when shooting uspsa limited.

 

[Magnumite]

I shot a double stack for several years, 45 caliber. Capacity was there for USPSA type games. Biggest advantage I discovered for limited round games was the way it indexed the pistol in my hand - may not be an advantage for you since hand size may be different than mine.

 

[stu929]

I have a large hand but short fingers. I actually really like how the frame feels in my hand with the exception of the mag release.

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[photoracer]

I shot my DS Bul M-5 in IDPA a few times years ago (9x23mm). However it was not technically legal in IDPA because the rules require a bushing barrel on any 1911 with a barrel longer than 4.25" and the Bul is a bull barrel. Now I have my SS DW Guardian in 9mm which is a bushing barrel and its fully legal. Plus I have 10 rd. mags for it if needed. My M-5 is about 85% converted from 9x23mm to .40 for possible USPSA as it still is a bull barrel so while local matches don't care it will be illegal in Tier II IDPA. Not that I care.

 

[stu929]

I shot my DS Bul M-5 in IDPA a few times years ago (9x23mm). However it was not technically legal in IDPA because the rules require a bushing barrel on any 1911 with a barrel longer than 4.25" and the Bul is a bull barrel. Now I have my SS DW Guardian in 9mm which is a bushing barrel and its fully legal. Plus I have 10 rd. mags for it if needed. My M-5 is about 85% converted from 9x23mm to .40 for possible USPSA as it still is a bull barrel so while local matches don't care it will be illegal in Tier II IDPA. Not that I care.

I heard the better mag options for caspians are 40s but that 9 was a tad easier to make run well.

I would be going with a bushing so no concern there.

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[Racinready300ex]

I have a Caspian and a STI in 38 Super, and another STI in 40. MBX is releasing a Caspian mag soon, and that will make those guns much more viable as a competition gun. Mags have always been Caspian's weak link.

If you're looking to shoot IDPA, and USPSA then I would go with a 40 for sure. Set the gun up to be legal in limited (USPSA) and ESP (IDPA). You wont really be competitive with a 9mm in USPSA. It would probably be a good idea to go shoot some matches before you do the build. That way you'll have a better understanding of what you need/want.

 

[stu929]

I have a Caspian and a STI in 38 Super, and another STI in 40. MBX is releasing a Caspian mag soon, and that will make those guns much more viable as a competition gun. Mags have always been Caspian's weak link.

If you're looking to shoot IDPA, and USPSA then I would go with a 40 for sure. Set the gun up to be legal in limited (USPSA) and ESP (IDPA). You wont really be competitive with a 9mm in USPSA. It would probably be a good idea to go shoot some matches before you do the build. That way you'll have a better understanding of what you need/want.

Honestly i just want a gun thats flexible and reliable. Im not building it to solely be a comp gun. Im doing it as a fun project that if i dont have a preference of caliber which would be better for the shooting games.

If i were doing it for serious comp id just buy something. I want to build something that's fun that I can also use should the bug bite me more.

I have a G17 and other 1911s this is just a range toy that I want to think ahead before investing in barrel and mags.

Thank you for the input!

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[photoracer]

9mm has to shoot Minor in USPSA Limited so .40 has the advantage.

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[Sewer Rat]

With the 1911's, I believe the 9's and 40's have the same breech face on the slides and therefore the barrels should be "interchangeable". Have been toying with building another slide for one of my para's. Going to watch this thread.

 

[stu929]

Depends on who makes the slides. Some companies overaize them a bit and you basically have a loose 9 / ok 40 slide.

Caspian sizes the slide to the round.

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[Mark75H]

Depends on who makes the slides. Some companies overaize them a bit and you basically have a loose 9 / ok 40 slide.

Caspian sizes the slide to the round.

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Sorry to go off topic ... but if one had the right slide could one interchange barrels for 9, 40 and 10?

 

[stu929]

Sorry to go off topic ... but if one had the right slide could one interchange barrels for 9, 40 and 10?

I believe para lists their slides as 45 or 9/40 so i believe so but keep in mind everything will contribute to reliability.

If a slide is a 9mm slide it will be a tight 40 and if its a 40 it will be a loose 9mm. I wonder if you took a 9 slide and slightly oversized it if you could find a happy medium. I know there are some who say you can run the same slide but how reliable it runs for them Im not sure.

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[Sewer Rat]

I believe para lists their slides as 45 or 9/40 so i believe so but keep in mind everything will contribute to reliability.

If a slide is a 9mm slide it will be a tight 40 and if its a 40 it will be a loose 9mm. I wonder if you took a 9 slide and slightly oversized it if you could find a happy medium. I know there are some who say you can run the same slide but how reliable it runs for them Im not sure.

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Thank you...

 

[Racinready300ex]

Infinity makes a slide with changeable breech faces.

 

[fidelity]

Does anyone here shoot a double stack 1911 in IDPA/USPSA? If so what caliber?

I decided I wanted build a 1911 for the hell of it and I have a Caspian Double stack cut for a ramped barrel and Im trying to decide how to finish it. Im not currently involved in IDPA mostly due to work always seeming to get in the way but have been jonesing to try a match. Ive taken pistol classes and do enjoy action shoot, just have limited experience currently.

I have heard arguments for 40 because it can be loaded up or down for minor major. Ive also heard many arguments for 9mm due to the extra capacity and pure joy of no recoil.

For what its worth I have the ability to load for 9MM/40S&W/45ACP so that part doesnt really matter.

So anyway what say you?


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Watch the width of the gun if going for a 2011-type shooter. The IDPA enhanced service pistol (ESP) width restriction is 1-5/8" (1.625 inches). On a double-stack 9mm pistol that has an ambi-safety selector, it's easy to overshoot this, as a Sig 226 in SAO will run approx 1.73 inches with an ambi-safety, but make the cut with a safety on just the right or left side.

 

[freebird]

My double stack ParaOrdnance 45 ACP was IDPA legal in CDP, years ago. It fit in the box, barely, and was a sliver of an ounce under max weight.

 

[stu929]

My double stack ParaOrdnance 45 ACP was IDPA legal in CDP, years ago. It fit in the box, barely, and was a sliver of an ounce under max weight.

Im def concerned about making weight as well.

Considered going 45 acp but it greatly limits capacity. Plus I have other 45s. 9/40 makes for a more run range toy that I can possibly do some other things with.

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[Magnumite]

True 9 and 38 Super share the same breechface. A 40 or 10mm will not fit a true 9mm breechface...at least it doesn't on my RemSport 9mm slide. A pistol I built with a Kimber 9mm slide will allow a 40/10mm case to slide into the breechface as mentioned in a previous post or two

 

[photoracer]

Depends on who makes the slides. Some companies overaize them a bit and you basically have a loose 9 / ok 40 slide.

Caspian sizes the slide to the round.

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I agree. While the breechface on the Bul M-5 slide will index a .40 case it won't feed it without cutting away some of the metal just above where the mag fits. So to convert mine to .40 I bought a stripped Para 16-40 slide and had it modified to work on the Bul lower and a factory Bul .40 barrel. I wanted to be able to swap back to 9x23mm if I chose to.