Private Sales of Non-regulated Arms.

[Muleskinner]

We’ve talked about this at length. The implications of such actions are enormous. Power/sanitation/supply chain interruptions. A lot of innocents would die because of these things. It’s not time and anyone who thinks it is can’t think past their foreskin.

Its been over 40 years. How long do we wait? I would say we let them draw first blood, but that has already happened. So when will it be time?

 

[teratos]

Eventually we will have to chose between being law-abiding or being felons.. it's not a choice you're going to be able to opt out of.

I agree, but you seem like you’d be perfectly content with the Boogaloo now. I don’t see it being a good idea as of today. The cost is dear, and now is not the time. Do I hope it can be avoided? I do. Am I hopeful it can be avoided? Less every day.

 

[Pinecone]

Nope. Government won’t see it that way. The serialized part is the firearm.

It would depend on:

1) The exact wording in the law.

2) The COMAR that comes for the law.

3) How MSP interprets the COMAR.

Heck, for the last, if they do it like FSA 2013 copies and imitations, they will leave it up to the FFLs.

 

[Bob A]

Laws can be effectively nullified by non-compliance.

NY's "SAFE" act netted about 10% of the state's ARs into a registered database. The rest are still out there. Outside NYC and Long Island, and a few bigger cities (Rochester, Buffalo) there's little love for that law, even by LEOs.

Once a state's citizens, or at least a large minority of them, treat a law with disrespect, it makes more of the same easier to stomach for the non-compliant. Legislators with half a brain will tread lightly lest the result be that they are forced into real jobs.

I've posted elsewhere a link to a column regarding Red states nullification of Federal laws; the same concept could be applied intra-state. Here's the link again:
https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2021/03/its_time_for_red_states_to_start_nullifying_federal_law.html

Don't forget the General Assembly's galleries being packed with folks wearing "We Will Not Comply" shirts, the last time that we were permitted to directly address our masters in Annapolis. They've kindly supplied us wil still more basically unconstitutional legislation to not comply with. Privately, at this tiime, of course. We don't need martyrs, but we don't need sheep either.

 

[Falkus]

I have been seeing ads for non regulated arms that indicate they want to have the transfer completed before I believe March 1. Is there a new regulation kicking in concerning non regulated weapons? If so, that would be a huge surprise since Maryland is so 2A friendly.

Since when it's 2A Friendly ?

 

[My Toy]

Be interested to hear stories of how private sales of long guns go at the FFL since Saturday the 13th.

 

[teratos]

Laws can be effectively nullified by non-compliance.

NY's "SAFE" act netted about 10% of the state's ARs into a registered database. The rest are still out there. Outside NYC and Long Island, and a few bigger cities (Rochester, Buffalo) there's little love for that law, even by LEOs.

Once a state's citizens, or at least a large minority of them, treat a law with disrespect, it makes more of the same easier to stomach for the non-compliant. Legislators with half a brain will tread lightly lest the result be that they are forced into real jobs.

I've posted elsewhere a link to a column regarding Red states nullification of Federal laws; the same concept could be applied intra-state. Here's the link again:
https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2021/03/its_time_for_red_states_to_start_nullifying_federal_law.html

Don't forget the General Assembly's galleries being packed with folks wearing "We Will Not Comply" shirts, the last time that we were permitted to directly address our masters in Annapolis. They've kindly supplied us wil still more basically unconstitutional legislation to not comply with. Privately, at this tiime, of course. We don't need martyrs, but we don't need sheep either.

I’m all for nullification and will go about my business. Burden is on the motherfvckers in Annapolis to find any wrongdoing on my part. I just looked myself up on MD judiciary case search. I found nothing.

 

[Tungsten]

Legislators with half a brain will tread lightly lest the result be that they are forced into real jobs.

Well, I think you have identified one problem right there.

But really the problem is that there is no incentive for MD legislators to do anything but toe the party line.

 

[teratos]

Its been over 40 years. How long do we wait? I would say we let them draw first blood, but that has already happened. So when will it be time?

When it’s worth the deaths of the sick and old who will be collateral damage. When you cut off power, water, medical care, food, you put a lot of your family, friends and neighbors in harms way. Its a very high price to pay. The return is just not there now.

 

[Mark75H]

Well, I think you have identified one problem right there.

But really the problem is that there is no incentive for MD legislators to do anything but toe the party line.

There are no truer words

 

[Bertfish]

I still haven't seen the COMAR language for this nonsense

 

[Nickberg500]

Nope. Government won’t see it that way. The serialized part is the firearm.

Yes but before this law went into effect, stripped lowers that could not accept .223/5.56 were cash and carry. I cannot find anywhere in the new law that "firearms" specifically aren't still unregulated.

I think Nick was saying those receivers were not necessarily long guns and the new law wouldn’t apply. The failing is if they aren’t unregulated long guns, they ARE regulated handguns and restricted transfer thru controlled agents applies.

Bingo, that's where I'm going. And non .223/5.56 stripped lowers are cash and carry, they're not regulated as handguns.

It would depend on:

1) The exact wording in the law.

2) The COMAR that comes for the law.

3) How MSP interprets the COMAR.

Heck, for the last, if they do it like FSA 2013 copies and imitations, they will leave it up to the FFLs.

Thank you. This is what I'm getting at, we need to identify EXACTLY what's legal and not legal with this law. The government has to tell us what we can't do, and I'm not seeing "firearms" covered by this law.

We need to get a solid understanding here folks. Because if stripped AR-9/AR-10 lowers aren't covered by this new law, there's still a private sale market with an open door!

 

[shrinkwrap]

Just a hypothetical, since none of us law-abiding citizens would ever think of doing this, but what if a bill of sale for a long gun private transfer was back-dated (probably couldn't have been posted on MDS because of the date stamp)?

Let me say at once that I am AGHAST that anyone would even THINK of doing such a thing (I'm even considering canceling myself for bringing it up), but just as a thought experiment, what do folks think?

 

[lumbermut]

Federal Gov't made the January 2021 stimulus check retroactive to 2020 income tax reporting, so why not

 

[Bertfish]

Just a hypothetical, since none of us law-abiding citizens would ever think of doing this, but what if a bill of sale for a long gun private transfer was back-dated (probably couldn't have been posted on MDS because of the date stamp)?

Let me say at once that I am AGHAST that anyone would even THINK of doing such a thing (I'm even considering canceling myself for bringing it up), but just as a thought experiment, what do folks think?

Unless someone wants to do an ink analysis to see when it was printed or you were dumb enough to do it somewhere recordable (think on video) then how would it ever be discovered?

This wouldn't work if you bought it from an FFL after the effective date since the 4473 would prove you owned it after the transfer ban date.

 

[lazarus]

Unless someone wants to do an ink analysis to see when it was printed or you were dumb enough to do it somewhere recordable (think on video) then how would it ever be discovered?

This wouldn't work if you bought it from an FFL after the effective date since the 4473 would prove you owned it after the transfer ban date.

This, and it takes a conspiracy for it to work.

How much do you trust the other guy?

Cops nail a guy on some other charges and DA floats it out there, "hey, give us something and we'll reduce the charges or give the judge a plea agreement seeking minimum sentence".

You think some guy who isn't family or a really close friend won't throw you under the bus offering up "well, this guy sold me a rifle a couple months ago cash over the trunk and we forged up a sale document to try to show we did the deal a couple years ago"?

The law isn't trying to stop family members from transferring guns (it specifically exempts it). Yeah it doesn't exempt "people known to you". But they want to stop joe rando from selling some guy a shotgun or rifle where you don't even have a clue if they are prohibited.

If folks are going to break the law, I'd hope they are at least smart enough not to be selling long guns to randos and HOPING that rando will never rat them out or that the rando isn't actually a sting.

Maybe I don't have very good friends, but even if I were inclined to break the law because screw them, I can't think of many friends I'd trust committing an up to 5 year misdemeanor with when 45-60 minutes of our time to run over to an FFL and paying them $20-40 to facilitate the transfer and we are done. Would either of us ever get caught? Almost certainly not. I don't need that hanging over my head at all though. Really suck bad if I misjudged a friend or it got back to me because they bragged to somebody about the shotgun they got from a friend and they said something stupid like they skipped the FFL thing because F the government and the wrong person overheard that.

Or that gun ends up with someone else years later. What if the shotgun or rifle you transferred to your friend illegally ends up getting stolen and the friend says the wrong thing. Etc.

I vehemently disagree with this law. But just because I find something incompatible with the constitution, you know what, risk vs reward. My risk is up to 5 years in prison and losing my gun rights for life. Possibly my house and certainly my job over it. Possibly my marriage. Probably screwing up my relationship with my kids.

The government is holding that over me, for anything from 30 minutes on a good day up to maybe a couple of hours of my time and the cost of a nice lunch for one to adhere to the law.

Huge risk, even if the likelihood of getting caught isn't high. Private individual, probably low risk per transaction (but I'd guess the odds aren't going to be super low). Transaction with a friend is probably easier to facilitate (much easier to figure out when you can meet at an FFL than joe rando), but also lower risk, but not zero still. So cost and risk are somewhat lower.

And family, most family is exempted from this.

 

[Ponder_MD]

We’ve talked about this at length. The implications of such actions are enormous. Power/sanitation/supply chain interruptions. A lot of innocents would die because of these things. It’s not time and anyone who thinks it is can’t think past their foreskin.

I agree that today is not the day.

My past examination of history indicates that people will align with their preferred factions first. I regard the Capitol riot as sort of a "Ft. Sumter" moment that has galvanized the public into seeking their faction.

Right now, people are watching what the current administration and Congress are doing. If Conservatives can stop a mass gun grab, peace will be maintained on the premise that "the system is still working."

If an Executive Order is passed, overriding Congress that quickly and grossly infringes upon our rights, making millions of citizens overnight criminals, we tick closer to "midnight." If military and law enforcement are directed to confiscate, well...that'll be an interesting day.

If Congress ignores the Constitution and awards statehood to DC and Puerto Rico in an attempt to install a phony "super majority," the same thing may occur.

Basically, conservatives, Constitutionalists or whatever label you want to slap on these folks, they will avoid conflict until their backs are firmly up against a wall and no other options are left.

We're still in the ballot box/jury box phase of things. I'm just not sure for how much longer.

 

[MDShooter20850]

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[Bertfish]

Completely agree with this. The gamble isn’t worth the risk. The cost to abide is relatively immaterial - at least in relation to the penalty.

The penalty overall though, the continued unjustifiable erosion of your God given rights, is pretty disgusting

 

[MDShooter20850]

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