When to Apply for MD Carry Permit

[teratos]

What’s the consensus regarding MD keeping the 2 year, 3 year renewal cycle? Common sense suggests they’d be better off going to the standard 5 year issue cycle.

I’d bet they keep almost exactly what is in place. They can’t change a lot, otherwise it makes them look obstructionist. We know that our lawmakers are dumb, but they aren’t dumb enough to piss on Clarence Thomas’ leg.

I think DC is the example to watch. Once they got spanked, they read the writing on the wall and implemented a reasonable shall issue scheme.

 

[Applehd]

Lengthening the time between renewals would certainly reduce the amount of bureaucracy involved in the process and would save the tax payer a few bucks... but Maryland's Democrat machine wants to drain your wallet. Keeping it at 2 and 3 will maintain the status quo while not rocking the boat with the SC. Once(If) the flood gates open to permits, the State will realize the increase in revenue and the sting of the SC decision won't be as bad. jmho.

 

[River02]

I’d bet they keep almost exactly what is in place. They can’t change a lot, otherwise it makes them look obstructionist. We know that our lawmakers are dumb, but they aren’t dumb enough to piss on Clarence Thomas’ leg.

Will they increasingly go after magazine limits/restrictions and handgun types?

 

[teratos]

Will they increasingly go after magazine limits/restrictions and handgun types?

I don’t think so. I think we’ll be dealing with time, place, manner of carry. Of course, I suspect other states will engage in shenanigans and a flurry of lawsuits will be seen.

 

[Brute]

The 16 hour training will be the next lawsuit.

This excludes lower income people from exercising their right to defend themselves. The HQL does as well, but this is even more expensive and more difficult to access for folks.

I do believe one can never have too much training, but is there a lot more covered in the 16 hour MD class versus the 4 hours for Florida/Utah? Most all of the basic level handgun stuff would be covered in HQL training, right? I don't think a live fire component would take 12 hours.

I know it doesn't much matter because the requirements will be the requirements regardless, I was just thinking of the cost difference between the two classes. I'm in the "hope to be out of state by the time this is all resolved anyway" camp, so maybe I won't have to find out.

 

[teratos]

I do believe one can never have too much training, but is there a lot more covered in the 16 hour MD class versus the 4 hours for Florida/Utah? Most all of the basic level handgun stuff would be covered in HQL training, right? I don't think a live fire component would take 12 hours.

I know it doesn't much matter because the requirements will be the requirements regardless, I was just thinking of the cost difference between the two classes. I'm in the "hope to be out of state by the time this is all resolved anyway" camp, so maybe I won't have to find out.

I agree that people should seek training. However, how many requirements must one meet to exercise a civil right?

 

[Brute]

I agree that people should seek training. However, how many requirements must one meet to exercise a civil right?

The State of MD and I disagree over the answer to that. But since those bastards are going to cling to their unconstitutional ******** any way they can, I was curious what additional training they required for 16 hours and $300+ that 30+ other states are ok with in 4 hours for $100.

 

[press1280]

People don’t fully grasp the gravity of a SCOTUS decision. Especially a decision on an Amendment to the BoR. There is no wiggle room. Arrest someone under a statute just found to be Unconstitutional and you lose your qualified immunity. Same thing happens to prosecutors. That’s a big deal. Ask Officer Pope.

When Wrenn was found in “our” favor, people went to DC and openly carried handguns….without a permit. D.C. police were instructed NOT to arrest them.

This situation is different than DC back then. When the DC law was struck down, there wasn't anything in its place so carry was a go so long as you weren't prohibited or carrying in a sensitive place.
Here, there's a law in place and the relief sought is non-enforcement of good cause for permit applications. So I wouldn't go carrying w/o the license.

I think as far as timing goes perhaps applying 30 days or so before SCOTUS' anticipated ruling might be the way to go. You get all the BS stuff out of the way and put on your good cause statement "See NYSRPA v. Bruen". This may make it to where MD can't deny you at that point and it'll be before the MD legislature can swoop in and start adding additional hoops (like bumping up to 16 hours of training every month). That's what I'm thinking anyway.

Side question-what qualifies as the 16 hours training? Does this have to be recent or have to be a MD-approved instructor,exc?

 

[press1280]

They would streamline the process to meet the 60 day time frame. They have in the past and can do so in the future.

The future of the MSP interview will be interesting. If there's no good cause required then the interview seems rather pointless. I doubt MSP can say they still need the interview to determine if the person is a whacko or not when MSP to my knowledge isn't trained to determine this.

W/O the interview, this certainly would save a ton of time. There would be no judgment calls to make, no asking for more bank receipts or additional information exc. They run your info through the system, check your background, see that the training & payment are in order, and that's that.
But we have seen shall-issues backed up to 90 days or more. I've been hearing VASP backed up on non-resident permits.
And who knows if vaccine mandates are going to chase off some pencil pushers in the MDSP.

 

[press1280]

The State of MD and I disagree over the answer to that. But since those bastards are going to cling to their unconstitutional ******** any way they can, I was curious what additional training they required for 16 hours and $300+ that 30+ other states are ok with in 4 hours for $100.

The training is always a tough one. I don't believe it should be required since there's no evidence I'm aware of that says training requirements cut down on accidents. Notice I say requirements since someone who isn't required certainly may get trained anyway. There's also the constitutional issue but I'll put that aside for now.
OTOH I'm a realist. I don't see the current SCOTUS right now striking down a training requirement short of something absolutely outrageous. The balancing act for them is what's outrageous and what's reasonable. Another way to go is to think of it like voting registration. In order to combat the racist/burdensome claims voter ID requirement, states will give out the IDs for free to undercut those claims. Perhaps this can be used to our advantage and claim if the state wants the training and licensing that bad let them pay for it.

 

[Mark75H]

I do believe one can never have too much training, but is there a lot more covered in the 16 hour MD class versus the 4 hours for Florida/Utah? Most all of the basic level handgun stuff would be covered in HQL training, right? I don't think a live fire component would take 12 hours.

I know it doesn't much matter because the requirements will be the requirements regardless, I was just thinking of the cost difference between the two classes. I'm in the "hope to be out of state by the time this is all resolved anyway" camp, so maybe I won't have to find out.

I agree with consitutional carry, there should be no training requirement.

I hesitate to respond, but with regard to the additional time MD requires between the 2 classes, there are additional laws to consider plus concealment and draw technique, psychological implications and a little more. Truthfully with one on one instructor to student ratio, the additional classroom material could probably be well covered in 90 minutes or so; perhaps an hour for explaining, demonstrating, practicing and fulfilling the wear and carry shooting. In the years I have been giving wear and carry training, I have not yet had a student familiar with any timed shooting and the 2 shots per action in the middle stage of MD's requirement is pretty intimidating to those who don't shoot at matches, so there is demonstration and practice before the actual qualification shooting. A class with more students per instructor will crawl a little slower for safety.

 

[Biggfoot44]

Smart Money is on simply removing G&S leaving the rest the same initially .

Maryland will really Want that to be a permanent answer , but quicker than they expect , there will be a dilemma for them . Convservative estimates will be 200K applications in short order .

They will be torn between conflicting goals of increasing the harassment of gun owners vs massive increase of staffing and $$ to MSP to deal with 10X the manhours using the legacy scheme .

Anybody's guess what the process will look like in 5 years from now .

 

[teratos]

Smart Money is on simply removing G&S leaving the rest the same initially .

Maryland will really Want that to be a permanent answer , but quicker than they expect , there will be a dilemma for them . Convservative estimates will be 200K applications in short order .

They will be torn between conflicting goals of increasing the harassment of gun owners vs massive increase of staffing and $$ to MSP to deal with 10X the manhours using the legacy scheme .

Anybody's guess what the process will look like in 5 years from now .

They’ll get rid of all the interviews, calling your references. It really won’t matter what Tom down the street thinks of you. Clean record, there isn’t a damn thing MSP can do but issue the permit.

I think it’s too much to ask that SCOTUS gets rid of permits altogether, though even Roberts questioned permitting a right.

 

[Biggfoot44]

Unless the ruling explicitly prohibits interviews , on day one the the bureaucratic and regulatory inertia will continue with largely pointless interviews .

Down the road , either MGA or MSP , or combination thereof will likely eleminate the default automatic interviews , in favor of reserving them for situiations actually requiring further in depth information .

Even pro gun , Shall Issue states have references on applications , even if rarely contacted .

 

[teratos]

Unless the ruling explicitly prohibits interviews , on day one the the bureaucratic and regulatory inertia will continue with largely pointless interviews .

Down the road , either MGA or MSP , or combination thereof will likely eleminate the default automatic interviews , in favor of reserving them for situiations actually requiring further in depth information .

Even pro gun , Shall Issue states have references on applications , even if rarely contacted .

Right now, they call every reference. Unsustainable.

 

[Biggfoot44]

Unsustainable is=/= explicitly prohibited . Md will initially attempt to sustain the unsustainable . Until it sinks in to them it is unsustainable ( at least not without massive $$$ infusion ) .

 

[camo556]

If they have to issue permits in 60 days, do the math. There is only some much time they can spend on each permit before they get sued.

Keep in mind, NYSRPA will reset the burden of proof. After, the state has the burden to prove you shouldn't carry, not the way it is now where the applicant has the burden of proof.

 

[Biggfoot44]

90 days

 

[Batt816]

They’ll get rid of all the interviews, calling your references. It really won’t matter what Tom down the street thinks of you. Clean record, there isn’t a damn thing MSP can do but issue the permit.

I think it’s too much to ask that SCOTUS gets rid of permits altogether, though even Roberts questioned permitting a right.

So- without interviews and references, that should free up some personnel to approve permits.

 

[camo556]

More interesting to me is what happens to people who apply in March, April, May or June of next year.

Surely the State Police know this is coming. Which makes me wonder what they will do with those applications. Someone is going to jump the gun and think we already won, put SD on the app.