5/11 scotus briefs

swamplynx · Jun 15, 2020

jcutonilli said:
What precedent are they going to set? I think many agree that the outcome is wrong, but what do you want SCOTUS to change? While I agree that conceptually the CA microstamping case should have been open and shut, the reasoning in the petition dances around the issue. They never really explained WHY the lower court got it wrong and what needs to be done instead.

In Rogers for example a bad decision could have solidified that the government can arbitrarily decide who has the right to exercise a right (may-issue), or even worse solidify that keep and bear do not extend outside of the home. Though all that still remains in limbo now, sometimes living to fight another day (in a better court composition) is better than risking bad precedent which would further entrench the infringements and embolden the lower courts.

Keeping the Senate and the WH could not be more important.

HotWheelsUMD · Jun 15, 2020

swamplynx said:
Yep. That is what I think. Kav, Gor, Thom and Alito suspect enough that Roberts would throw the whole of the 2A under the bus and don't want to risk a bad precedent.

https://twitter.com/adamwinkler/status/1272552305615712256

Seems others have this take too. Makes the most sense at this point.

Some Guy · Jun 15, 2020

My new verb: Robertsed.

rascal · Jun 15, 2020

danb said:
Does not say why all of them were denied.

Frankly it does pretty clearly say why. Roberts has signaled he would vote against any increase in 2A rights, and would likely harm 2A if forced and there you have it, at least one of the the of the four supporters voted against cert to prevent roberts from increasing limits on 2A.

the decisions have nothing to do with merits by are simply political and virtually entirely partisan. The arguments in these cases are cover.

swamplynx · Jun 15, 2020

rascal said:
Frankly it does pretty clearly say why. Roberts has signaled he would vote against any increase in 2A rights, and would likely harm 2A if forced and there you have it, at least one of the the of the four supporters voted against cert to prevent roberts from increasing limits on 2A.

the decisions have nothing to do with merits by are simply political and virtually entirely partisan. The arguments in these cases are cover.

Agree. 100%

fightinbluhen51 · Jun 15, 2020

Some Guy said:
My new verb: Robertsed.

Thanks Bush Jr.

If anyone ever quotes anything from The Lincoln Project around these parts, they deserve to be summarily (in a figurative way) beaten into a pulp for their fateful use of non-logic.

#AtLeastItWasntHarriet

wjackcooper · Jun 15, 2020

Rascal nailed it, but I will add:

The most able 2A lawyers in the country have been unable to get a cert grant for years, seems obvious to me that these cases are not being rejected on their merits. If History provides a clue, the Roberts vote (like the Kennedy vote was) is so uncertain that both factions are not mustering four votes for fear of a five - four adverse ruling.

Another Trump appointee could be the last best hope.

Regards
Jack

TheOriginalMexicanBob · Jun 15, 2020

Over thirty-five years ago when I attended submachine gun instructor school our lead instructor talked about the politics of this...how pro-gun groups have won some good court victories and lost some heart-breakers. His point was...and he came out and plainly said it...is that gun groups as well as anti-gun groups are scared of a real decision by SCOTUS...because if it doesn't go your way the game is over for a long time...the other side will take the ball and go home. He stressed that it takes the right case to come before SCOTUS...not just any gun case and it has to be prepared properly and argued properly. He related a case brought by someone the gun groups wouldn't back because it wasn't the right case...and the individual financed it himself and lost...thus hurting the cause with negative precedent.

There's also the argument that both sides...both pro- and anti-gun need the controversy for fundraising. If one side takes it all there's no reason for anyone to keep fundraising as no one will see the need to send their money in.

As I said...that was years ago...I do think the NRA and other gun groups are seeing the long game here after the Heller decision...because in spite of recent SCOTUS decisions states and municipalities are enacting and enforcing laws plainly in violation of Heller. I think the cases being argued are good, solid cases on solid Constitutional footing. It's weak Justices that prevent them from being argued.

The makeup of SCOTUS is so critical makes it imperative everyone gets out and votes this year...if Dementia Joe...or as likely whomever replaces him before his term is over...will most certainly nominate anti-freedom candidates to the entire judiciary system...not just SCOTUS.

777GSOTB · Jun 15, 2020

Yup....Keep them licensed concealed carry cases coming. A shout out to Justice Roberts for understanding that a right can not be licensed. Thank you SIR!

danb · Jun 15, 2020

TheOriginalMexicanBob said:
The makeup of SCOTUS is so critical makes it imperative everyone gets out and votes this year...if Dementia Joe...or as likely whomever replaces him before his term is over...will most certainly nominate anti-freedom candidates to the entire judiciary system...not just SCOTUS.

The GOP Senate majority is also in danger at the moment. If the election were held today, Dems would sweep both houses and the White House.

Muleskinner · Jun 15, 2020

rascal said:
Frankly it does pretty clearly say why. Roberts has signaled he would vote against any increase in 2A rights, and would likely harm 2A if forced and there you have it, at least one of the the of the four supporters voted against cert to prevent roberts from increasing limits on 2A.

the decisions have nothing to do with merits by are simply political and virtually entirely partisan. The arguments in these cases are cover.

Quit making excuses for the Supreme Court. They have declined to hear or have ruled against the Second Amendment almost twice as often as they have ruled in favor of it. The Supreme Court of the United States is not our friend. For those of you so inclined why don't you go ahead and turn your Firearms into the police now since it's obvious eventually we are going to lose our rights completely. Blue States will see this as an affirmation of their gun control laws and will be passing even more tyrannical gun control in the upcoming legislative sessions. Maryland will be no different. For those of you who are inclined to fight prepare yourself. I know that's not most of you here

press1280 · Jun 15, 2020

rascal said:
Frankly it does pretty clearly say why. Roberts has signaled he would vote against any increase in 2A rights, and would likely harm 2A if forced and there you have it, at least one of the the of the four supporters voted against cert to prevent roberts from increasing limits on 2A.

the decisions have nothing to do with merits by are simply political and virtually entirely partisan. The arguments in these cases are cover.

How has he actually signaled this? He hasn’t technically done anything since signing on to McDonald. We have to put some blame at the door of the other 4. They have the power to grant cert. if we can’t get them to agree to just one of these cases then something is seriously wrong, not to mention only Rogers got a dissent.

777GSOTB · Jun 15, 2020

wjackcooper said:
Rascal nailed it, but I will add:

The most able 2A lawyers in the country have been unable to get a cert grant for years, seems obvious to me that these cases are not being rejected on their merits. If History provides a clue, the Roberts vote (like the Kennedy vote was) is so uncertain that both factions are not mustering four votes for fear of a five - four adverse ruling.

Another Trump appointee could be the last best hope.

Regards
Jack

How did you determine that, without a single unlicensed upon carry case being brought to the SCOTUS?

Decoy · Jun 15, 2020

I have ZERO confidence in any part of our government and it is not a good feeling.

Ovid · Jun 15, 2020

The blanket denial of cert for all of the 2A cases has been admittedly eye opening. I was clearly far to optimistic and had far to much faith in our system of government. Moving ever closer to the final box.

fightinbluhen51 · Jun 15, 2020

danb said:
The GOP Senate majority is also in danger at the moment. If the election were held today, Dems would sweep both houses and the White House.

I don't buy any of these polls. Not one bit. Maybe I'll eat crow, but right now, the summer is gonna be mighty hot (even though the sunspots are at record lows).

Pope414 · Jun 15, 2020

Since the day Obama got to Roberts (dirt on his illegal adoptions ect...)any 2A cert grant became DOA ...Roberts has become an embarrassment to the court. The only chance the people have it to make him irrelevant by adding another federalist society originalist jurist

Decoy · Jun 15, 2020

Pope414 said:
Since the day Obama got to Roberts (dirt on his illegal adoptions ect...)any 2A cert grant became DOA ...Roberts has become an embarrassment to the court. The only chance the people have it to make him irrelevant by adding another federalist society originalist jurist

It won't matter, add another federalist society originalist and someone else will go "wobbly".

Boxcab · Jun 15, 2020

Ovid said:
The blanket denial of cert for all of the 2A cases has been admittedly eye opening. I was clearly far to optimistic and had far to much faith in our system of government. Moving ever closer to the final box.

It is a sign of an internal struggle. Enough Justices wanted to hear one, or more, of these cases to keep them alive for almost two years. Now, they drop them all. If there was zero interest, they would have not put in the effort. It is likely that Roberts can not be counted on or trusted.

We want one big "win it all" case, but we won't get that. Our Right was brought to the edge of extinction by a thousand little cuts. That's how we will need to get it back.

So what kind of case would get Roberts attention? What is the lowest common denominator that could get his vote?

Even if Trump wins, it will take a year or more before he will fill a seat. Do we wait?

Just my ramblings…

.

HarryLogan · Jun 15, 2020

The country is facing anarchy and a bunch of hypocrites in robes trample our rights.

5/11 scotus briefs

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