Is a 22LR or 25ACP Better for SELF-DEFENCE?
- Thread starter jmiller320
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As some one who carried a .25 Colt 1908 for a hideout gun. I did it because of its size and switched out to a Kel Tec P32 as soon as they came out. Changed to a P3AT and still have it.
I did many penetration tests with the .25 but the problem was that manufacturers were loading down for older guns. The fastest ammo I found was a Federal offering that is no longer made. Since higher speed = higher energy, that is what I went with.
I also carried the Beretta 21A loaded with CCI Stingers. These were the fastest bullets at the time and that is what I went with.
My training using those consisted of shooting six shots as fast as I could pull the trigger into the neck area of the target at contact range. It was only meant for a last ditch effort and I am glad to say I never had to use it to see if my plan would work.
BTW, his pocket gun is too big to get out of his pocket quickly. You can't take a gun out with two fingers when you need it and your Adrenalin is pumping.
I did many penetration tests with the .25 but the problem was that manufacturers were loading down for older guns. The fastest ammo I found was a Federal offering that is no longer made. Since higher speed = higher energy, that is what I went with.
I also carried the Beretta 21A loaded with CCI Stingers. These were the fastest bullets at the time and that is what I went with.
My training using those consisted of shooting six shots as fast as I could pull the trigger into the neck area of the target at contact range. It was only meant for a last ditch effort and I am glad to say I never had to use it to see if my plan would work.
BTW, his pocket gun is too big to get out of his pocket quickly. You can't take a gun out with two fingers when you need it and your Adrenalin is pumping.
alucard0822
For great Justice
25 hands down, it sucks less. The gel test showed slightly better penetration, but that is only part of it. The difference in reliability of centerfire vs rimfire is significant, centerfire is just flat out superior. The difference in feeding a rimless vs rimmed round is also important. That being said, 32ACP has more than double the power, 9mm has about 6 times the power.
TheOriginalMexicanBob
Ultimate Member
A centerfire is more reliable than a rimfire as well. How many times have people reported here of so many misfires in a box of .22? Not to say centerfire ammunition doesn't have the occasional misfire but they're still more reliable than a rimfire.
Neither is optimal for self-defense but a face full of either will likely deter an attacker. It could also enrage the attacker if he's high and you can't short circuit his CNS. There's no magic bullet.
Neither is optimal for self-defense but a face full of either will likely deter an attacker. It could also enrage the attacker if he's high and you can't short circuit his CNS. There's no magic bullet.
Biggfoot44
Ultimate Member
- Aug 2, 2009
- 33,291
Bottom Line First - Neither . They both suck , and both round off to as close to zero as anything gets .
Plenty of Subcompact .32acp essentially the same size as a .25acp , but massively Less Worse in effectiveness . My main gripe about NAA Guardian is being Too tiny . But still it instantly made my Bauer an object 'd art .
But since not just MDS , but the whole pew pew world likes to engage in head of a pin showdown debates , here's the low down :
.25acp advantage : It's centerfire , ie better QC , and more resistant to sweat , humidity , and dust bunnies .
.22lr advantage : Ammo is cheaper , and more readily available . Mouseguns need precise shot placement under stress . It takes a Lot of practice to be confident to reliably hit an eye socket or ear canal with a micro pistol , Affordable with rimfire , not so much . 25acp .
Back in the day , it wasn't uncommon to have matching Beretta pocket gun , one in Rimfire , identical one in .25acp , so that high volume practice with .22 would transfer to the .25 for actual carry .
Plenty of Subcompact .32acp essentially the same size as a .25acp , but massively Less Worse in effectiveness . My main gripe about NAA Guardian is being Too tiny . But still it instantly made my Bauer an object 'd art .
But since not just MDS , but the whole pew pew world likes to engage in head of a pin showdown debates , here's the low down :
.25acp advantage : It's centerfire , ie better QC , and more resistant to sweat , humidity , and dust bunnies .
.22lr advantage : Ammo is cheaper , and more readily available . Mouseguns need precise shot placement under stress . It takes a Lot of practice to be confident to reliably hit an eye socket or ear canal with a micro pistol , Affordable with rimfire , not so much . 25acp .
Back in the day , it wasn't uncommon to have matching Beretta pocket gun , one in Rimfire , identical one in .25acp , so that high volume practice with .22 would transfer to the .25 for actual carry .
Dang, I forgot, I switched to a NAA Guardian after the 1908 and went from there to P32, to P3AT. As many have said, the centerfire is much more reliable and, now that we have pistols the same size as small .25's, there is no reason to carry a small .22 or .25 anymore.
What... no love for .41 RF short? LOL.
22collector
Member
- May 4, 2015
- 16
22lr all the way
I just bought a Ruger EC9S, 9mm, its not much bigger than his 25 or 22
I wish someone would make a 7.65x19 and conversions for 9mm guns. Run the cartridge up to ~30k PSI and I’d bet you could Chuck 85 or 90gr JHP at around 1050fps out of a 3.5” barrel. Basically a 32NAA, but the advantage being a smaller diameter case, rather than necked down 380. So you’d increase your capacity more.
Rather than a micro 9 or 380 with 6-7 rounds, you could fit 8-9 rounds.
Rather than a micro 9 or 380 with 6-7 rounds, you could fit 8-9 rounds.
Biggfoot44
Ultimate Member
- Aug 2, 2009
- 33,291
I had to read that several times , as you seemed to be reinventing the .30 Luger aka 7.65 Parabelum . ( Today we would think a necked down 9x19 , but the 7.65 came first , so the 9x19 is actually a necked Up 7.65 .)
But the catch is that the longer COL would require a physically larger gun , essentially the size of a subcompact 9x19 .
What you probably really are wanting would be a .32acp +P loading .
FWIW , you're describing the ballistics of .32 H&R Magnum .
But the catch is that the longer COL would require a physically larger gun , essentially the size of a subcompact 9x19 .
What you probably really are wanting would be a .32acp +P loading .
FWIW , you're describing the ballistics of .32 H&R Magnum .
alucard0822
For great Justice
Can't remember if it was Sig or HK messing around with something like that. .312 cal, 20mm, slight tapered case, pushes a 100gr about 1200fps, basically 9mm ballistics, but less recoil and 2-4 rounds more capacity in pistols
Darkemp
Ultimate Member
Never carried- but the LCP II in .22LR is a cool little gun and not bad to shoot either. Will be interesting to see if they do a Max variant on that one as a companion piece to the new LCP Max. 12 +1 of .380 is an awesome little package for a true pocket sized pistol.
Now I want a .327 Federal magnum. Actually I've wanted one since they hit the market, I'm just reminded of it now.
Better watch what you ask for. The .327 FM never took off too well and ammo is only made as special runs. .32 Long is probably going to be around a long time since it is used in many competition pistols.
That's why I avoided it. I think it's a great concept but I don't reload.
- Feb 4, 2013
- 28,175
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