CrueChief
Cocker Dad/RIP Bella
What would be the passengers responsibility to inform, if the leo is basically conducting business with the driver? Should the passenger interrupt things and say by the way I'm carrying?
Police stop and you are legally transporting a non-serial number firearm?
- Thread starter My Toy
- Start date
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Which would be dumb, just like handing over an ID when not driving.
Make sure you blame them, if you are detained for a longer amount of time.
fabsroman
Ultimate Member
Isn't this stuff taught in CCW class?
Didn't come up in our class, now that you mention it. There was good time spent on driving/carrying.
I can't think of too many circumstances in which I'd be riding with family or friends who wouldn't know I might be carrying, but ... a client? A colleague? Less likely. And you wouldn't want that person to be made a liar if a cop asks them if there's a weapon in the car.
CrueChief
Cocker Dad/RIP Bella
I ve been through several classes and no it never came up, as none were involving a duty to notify state. I wasn't necessarily saying if the driver didn't know but rather what is a passenger in the vehicle's duty to notify. Specifically if the officer isn't conducting business with them only the driver.
This.I would assume that the average LEO holding a radar gun isn't intimately familiar with every law on the books, and probably isn't aware that building your own firearms is perfectly legal, and that a serial number isn't required on them. You might see some extra scrutiny it if ever came up during a stop.
More broadly speaking, one might consider transporting their firearms and gear in such a manner that they aren't easily seen during a traffic stop. You're under no obligation to answer questions, either. Don't lie, of course, but don't volunteer information. Be polite and protect yourself from what might end up being a hassle over perfectly legal activities.
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How do you know?
RoadDawg
Nos nostraque Deo
- Dec 6, 2010
- 94,469
I generally try not to post too much in the more public sections...
But this is completely false information.
The US Constitution means EVERYTHING when stopped by the LEO. That is why respectful encounters rarely end in dispare for either side.
I personally made thousands of stops in 24 years... I never violated anyone's Constitutional Rights. And I never allowed a subordinate to do so either. COTUS rights mattered in every one of those stops.
If you believe your rights have been violated... there are lawful means to file a protest. But do NOT attempt to "fight your battle" during the stop.
Be civil, respectful, and courteous. Do what is lawfully required. And don't let your anger or frustration get the better of you in a tense situation.
It does matter... and it does make a difference in the outcome.
RoadDawg
Nos nostraque Deo
- Dec 6, 2010
- 94,469
No.
The passengers should remain out of the situation as much as possible and only comment if asked by the LEO.
Doing otherwise would be the same as walking up to every LEO one sees and announcing "I am armed." You (the passenger) were not driving... the driver was stopped. Unless the LEO addresses you personally... remain out of the situation.
How do I (we) know what, specifically?
Hawkeye
The Leatherstocking
- Jan 29, 2009
- 3,971
What he is saying is that when a "normal" civilian (i.e. not an ex-cop like yourself) is stopped by a police officer, that officer literally holds all of the cards. They are the one with the gun (for those of us not lucky enough to have a permit). They are the one with the radio and backup if they need it. They are the one who gets to decide the outcome, ultimately. We are the ones who have to sit in the car and bear with whatever the cop decides to do. If he decides to toss my car without PC, I can shout "I don't consent to any search!" as much as I want, but he's got the gun, and he's going to do the search.
Now, I'm not saying that the person being stopped bears no responsibility for how things go - it behooves all of us to be as polite and considerate of the officer as is possible during a stop. Everyone will be better off if we do.
But frankly, if the cop is an *******, or if he decides he doesn't like me, or decides that I'm guilty of something, or that I'm going to catch a bullet, there is not a damn thing I can do about it, in that moment. Constitution be damned, if that cop decides that I'm acting funny and pulls his weapon on me, the existence or nonexistence of the constitution doesn't mean a damn thing.
That's what the other guy was talking about.
That's because you were a good cop. Not all cops are like you.
That's exactly what he was talking about. During the stop, the existence of the constitution means absolutely nothing if the cop decides to be grumpy and things take a turn for the worse. AFTER the stop, the Constitution gives you remedy.
That the overwhelming majority of off-duty LEO and citizens who were armed informed you that they were armed.
RoadDawg
Nos nostraque Deo
- Dec 6, 2010
- 94,469
While it may be nice that you saw fit to interpret what "he said"...
It's not what he "wrote".
And THAT is what I responded to.
We cannot afford the luxury of believing that all who read these threads will be able to interpret vague statements.
Humans on both sides of the equation are subject to having a bad day... I've diffused far more fights and negative encounters... than I've been forced to engage force to end what did not have to escalate in the first place.
COTUS rights do matter... in ALL encounters between citizens and LEOs.
Hawkeye
The Leatherstocking
- Jan 29, 2009
- 3,971
It is what he wrote. You're interpreting it, just like I am. You're just interpreting differently than I am.
I would argue that my COTUS rights matter not one whit if the cop decides to put his weapon in my face for whatever reason. In that moment, it helps me not a bit to know that I've got 1st, and 4th, and 5th amendment rights on my side if he decides to twitch his index finger. This is hypothetical, because I've never put myself in a situation where a cop would have felt the need to do that, and again, I'm extremely polite to officers when I interact with them, but that's because I recognize that they hold *all* of the power in that particular moment. Most of the cops that I have ever interacted with have been great guys who are doing a sometimes very shitty job, but there have been a few who have been *total* dickheads, and once in particular I was worried for my own safety at the beginning of the stop, though to his credit that particular cop eventually calmed down, realized that it was a ******** stop that he didn't have any PC for and let me go without so much as a warning.
fabsroman
Ultimate Member
This is my feeling and my experience to a tee. Most encounters with law enforcement have been professional and just fine. There have been a couple that leave me worrying about how the next one will be.
