Fed. Judge in NY: No 4A rights for Int'l Travelers. What's on your device?

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  • Jim12

    Let Freedom Ring
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 30, 2013
    34,123
    Well, big brother wants ALL your personal information if you dare to return from a trip abroad with your cell phone or laptop. This threatens more than your 4th Amendment rights. It's a broad, limitless sweep that chills all of them. You might want to leave all your electronic devices at home when you fly abroad after this. Do you want DHS snooping through your cellphone messages, hard drive, contacts, etc?

    http://www.executivetravelmagazine....-laptops?xid=TLCHECKIN010614FederalCourtRules

    01.05.14

    Federal court rules on government searches of travelers' laptops

    By Jim Glab FAA/Security

    Do you assume that your right to privacy trumps the authority of Customs and Border Protection (CBP) officers to seize and search the contents of your laptop when you return to the U.S. after an international trip? It’s been a contentious issue in recent years, and a New York federal judge just came down with a ruling on it.

    A lawsuit challenging the government’s right to search data on travelers’ laptops, smart phones and other devices was dismissed by Federal District Judge Edward Korman in the Eastern District of New York, who ruled that CBP and the Department of Homeland Security do have the authority to conduct such investigations, even without having any reasonable suspicion that the laptop’s owner is involved in illegal or threatening activity.

    The suit was filed with the backing of the American Civil Liberties Union by an Islamic studies university student whose computer was held for 11 days; it was seized at the border when he took a train from Montreal to New York. He was held for several hours but not charged with a crime.

    “We’re disappointed in today’s decision, which allows the government to conduct intrusive searches of Americans’ laptops and other electronics at the border without any suspicion that those devices contain evidence of wrongdoing,” said ACLU attorney Catherine Crump.

    “Suspicionless searches of devices containing vast amounts of personal information cannot meet the standard set by the Fourth Amendment, which prohibits unreasonable searches and seizures. Unfortunately, these searches are part of a broader pattern of aggressive government surveillance that collects information on too many innocent people, under lax standards, and without adequate oversight,” she added.

    Judge Korman conceded in his ruling that “a comprehensive forensic search of a computer, whether a desktop or a laptop, involves a significant invasion of privacy,” but he added: “The invasion of privacy occasioned by such a border search, however, like the search of luggage, briefcases, and even clothing worn by a person entering the United States, is mitigated by other factors that are not present in a purely domestic context.”
    ...
     

    Jim12

    Let Freedom Ring
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 30, 2013
    34,123
    I read this as much broader than a border check for illegal contraband.

    This is more like a random colonoscopy without any cause for suspicion. No standards, and no accountability.

    I've also noticed a growing tendency for New Yorkers to chant the mantra, "9/11," without much further explantation as justification for ever-growing usurpation of our rights and liberties. New Yorkers (the city) didn't have much privacy before 9/11, so maybe they don't see the difference.
     

    WeaponsCollector

    EXTREME GUN OWNER
    Mar 30, 2009
    12,120
    Southern MD
    "If tyranny and oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy."
    - James Madison

    "The means of defense against foreign danger, have been always the instruments of tyranny at home."
    - James Madison

    "Perhaps it is a universal truth that the loss of liberty at home is to be charged against provisions against danger, real or pretended from abroad."
    - James Madison
     

    Jim12

    Let Freedom Ring
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 30, 2013
    34,123
    If trends are an indication, expect Immigration to require soon that you both show your passport and plug your laptop or other portable device into a USB connector that downloads the entire contents of your drives into their database for "future" review if they find it necessary. That NY fed. judge and others like him will call it a minimal inconvenience outweighed by public safety concerns.

    Oh, don't worry, nothing to see here. Your information will be safely held in government computers and only reviewed in the future if you do something to arouse suspicion. Yeah, right. e.g. wrong party affiliation, supporter of conservative nonprofits, gun owners, etc. :sad20: :sad20:
     

    Ragnar

    Ultimate Member
    May 7, 2013
    1,164
    Berkeley Springs, WV
    Join the CBP's Global Entry program. It costs $100 for five years and you have to get fingerprinted, interviewed and background checked, but you can avoid passport and customs lines at most US international airports, and it's pretty unlikely that you'll be searched by customs officers. Also, you get automatically enrolled in TSA's Pre Chek program, which allows you to use an expedited security line at many airports.
     

    Jim12

    Let Freedom Ring
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 30, 2013
    34,123
    Join the CBP's Global Entry program. It costs $100 for five years and you have to get fingerprinted, interviewed and background checked, but you can avoid passport and customs lines at most US international airports, and it's pretty unlikely that you'll be searched by customs officers. Also, you get automatically enrolled in TSA's Pre Chek program, which allows you to use an expedited security line at many airports.

    Yes, you can waive your rights for convenience, be fingerprinted, swabbed, etc., and pay the government a fee for the privilege, to boot.

    On top of that, it offers no protection against the unlawful search and seizure exposed by the original piece quoted above. "Pretty unlikely" isn't a Constitutional standard. After all your time, trouble, and expense, they could still download your data, especially if they cross check your personal data with other databases and find out you are one of their "suspects" -- e.g. merely belong to the wrong political party, own a gun, etc.
     

    Indiana Jones

    Wolverine
    Mar 18, 2011
    19,480
    CCN
    CBP can search you at the border for illegal contraband. I guess you COULD argue that this falls into the same category. I expect this to be appealed and potentially overturned, though.

    Main problem being that you'd have to be specific about WHAT you are searching for. And the idea that copy-ability of data presents a much larger concern than looking for, say, illegal fruit.

    In the meantime...encrypt your important files, clear your history, and don't carry the laptop with all of your personal documents out of the country...get a "travel device".

    People are going to start to regret this massive movement toward portable computing and "the cloud" and all of this other stuff. An old tower in your bedroom with local, un-shared storage is still the best place for certain kinds of files.

    Information is power, and most people are nowhere NEAR careful enough with it these days.

    We shouldnt have to adapt our travel tendencies and devices to avoid persecution by an OUT OF CONTROL government. They can kiss my ass. This absolutely ridiculous.

    Anyone who says "oh well, i have nothing to hide" is playing into their hands. Doesnt matter. I have a right to be secure in my person and personal belongings.
     

    Inigoes

    Head'n for the hills
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 21, 2008
    49,598
    SoMD / West PA
    We shouldnt have to adapt our travel tendencies and devices to avoid persecution by an OUT OF CONTROL government. They can kiss my ass. This absolutely ridiculous.

    Anyone who says "oh well, i have nothing to hide" is playing into their hands. Doesnt matter. I have a right to be secure in my person and personal belongings.

    The FBI has already (and quietly) changed their primary mission from enforcing the law to National Security.

    http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/quick-facts
    http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2014/01/05/fbi_drops_law_enforcement_as_primary_mission
     

    Matlack

    Scribe
    Dec 15, 2008
    8,558
    The 4th amendment, as well as many others, has been systematically attacked for many years now in the guise of "public safety". When you have "no expected" privacy in your personal vehicle then you really have no privacy outside your home. Remember that the 4th amendment was written specifically because the British government issued broad all encompassing warrants against the colonials that allowed stopping and seizing anything they had. I wonder what they might say about how citizens are treated today?
     

    NY Transplant

    Wabbit Season/Duck Season
    Apr 2, 2010
    2,810
    Westminster, MD
    Join the CBP's Global Entry program. It costs $100 for five years and you have to get fingerprinted, interviewed and background checked, but you can avoid passport and customs lines at most US international airports, and it's pretty unlikely that you'll be searched by customs officers. Also, you get automatically enrolled in TSA's Pre Chek program, which allows you to use an expedited security line at many airports.

    You have got to be freakin' kidding me. :mad54:

    Why anyone would subject themselves to that level of infringement and pay for the privilege is beyond me. :sad20:

    I'm glad I no longer do extensive foreign travel like I did in the past.
     
    Some Internet activists have started to use "burner" laptops and phones when they travel: buy a cheap phone in country and carry some inexpensive laptop (with files stored in an encrypted server back home). When you leave, just dump the phone and rip out/smash the laptop hard drive. It's possible some of the data could be recoverable assuming whoever finds the HD after you dump it. When you re-enter the country you don't have any mobile device you don't want searched.

    It gets expensive but some corporations have started doing this with their employees for certain countries (e.g. China).
     

    Not_an_outlaw

    Ultimate Member
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 26, 2013
    4,679
    Prince Frederick, MD
    I wonder if a paper notebook full of addresses and phone numbers is fair game to these people. What about "company confidential" data. Power point printouts and other paper "things?"
     

    Jim12

    Let Freedom Ring
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 30, 2013
    34,123
    Some Internet activists have started to use "burner" laptops and phones when they travel: buy a cheap phone in country and carry some inexpensive laptop (with files stored in an encrypted server back home). When you leave, just dump the phone and rip out/smash the laptop hard drive. It's possible some of the data could be recoverable assuming whoever finds the HD after you dump it. When you re-enter the country you don't have any mobile device you don't want searched.

    It gets expensive but some corporations have started doing this with their employees for certain countries (e.g. China).

    One expects to have to do that in China. My own Blackberry went visibly crazy when I landed in Beijing a few years ago, even though I had turned it off, I thought.

    BUT in the USA ???
     

    teratos

    My hair is amazing
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 22, 2009
    59,840
    Bel Air
    CBP can search you at the border for illegal contraband. I guess you COULD argue that this falls into the same category. I expect this to be appealed and potentially overturned, though.

    You could argue it. Of course, they don't have the authority. If they are on the other side of the border they have no jurisdiction, if they are on the US side of the border, that whole Constitution thing kicks in. I don't see any "border" clauses in the 4th Amendment.
     

    Ragnar

    Ultimate Member
    May 7, 2013
    1,164
    Berkeley Springs, WV
    You have got to be freakin' kidding me. :mad54:

    Why anyone would subject themselves to that level of infringement and pay for the privilege is beyond me. :sad20:

    I'm glad I no longer do extensive foreign travel like I did in the past.

    I do extensive foreign and domestic travel and it saves me a ton of time. Plus, if you have an American Express platinum card, Amex reimburses the $100 fee.

    I know it's intrusive, but I have saved many, many hours at busy airports like Miami and JFK and made flights that I otherwise may have missed due to long security lines.

    The program is completely voluntary, and you can't really call something "infringement" if you can avoid it by choice. But it's not for everybody.
     

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