Kel-Tec Sub-2000

GrimReaper · Dec 31, 2020

I only have it for a truck gun. Folds up, fits under the seat and can be unfolded and ready to go quickly. Also fits in a regular size book bag. If it wasn't for its compactness I wouldn't own one.

Its extremely awkward to get a good cheek weld and sight picture with it, for me it is anway. It would be much better to shoot with a red dot but then it won't fold. They make red dot mounts that flip to the side so you can fold it but it won't fit under the seat with the mount folded to the side.

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Travis Bickle · Dec 31, 2020

Overall The sub2k is great for its price. Paid 400 for mine. Never had any reliability issues in 1000+ rounds.

2 big criticisms with the sub2k design:

1. Trigger is absolute garbage.
For me the point of a PCC is to be able to have a small gun capable of fast controllable fire. With the sub2k trigger firing quickly is difficult.

2. Direct blowback design where bolt travels into a buffer tube behind trigger.
It’s a 4 pound direct blowback 9mm so recoil is much more than you’d think. Recoils way more than my lightweight AR-15. I think the “buffer tube” also acts as a fulcrum when the bolt goes back and increases dot bounce even more.

I am quicker taking follow up shots with my 6lb AR-15 than I am the sub2k, but it’s still a ton of fun. As long as pistol braces are a thing I’d look at CZ Scorpion (when prices come back to normal), AR9 build or Extar EP9 if you’re on a budget.

Darkemp · Dec 31, 2020

Adam said:
I just recently purchased the Sub2000. I like it. Only fired it at an indoor range, so limited to 25 yards; but I was able to keep the group similar to what I get from the Glock 17 at 10 yards. This is on two brand new, unbroken in, firearms.

I was actually looking for the Ruger PC Carbine; but I haven't seen any around in quite some time. Gun Connection just received this shortly before I walked in. It takes seconds to unfold and have it in action. It took one click on the front sight to zero at 25 yards. It was fun to shoot. I hear that some people have a hard time getting a good sight picture, while others don't. Happily for me, it settled to my cheek comfortably. Double happily, it doesn't grab my beard like I've heard from other folks, though I do keep it reasonably short.

I bought the gun because I wanted a packable long gun. I have a fair amount of 9mm (though I'm burning through it frighteningly fast...I may need to adjust my shooting schedule soon), so that was convenient. I picked up a Glock 17 to match with it, even though I'm not a huge Glock fan. I figure I can put together a backpack with the Glock and the Sub2000, some ammo and basic supplies at a reasonable weight and I have something ready to go if 2021 doubles down on the hell of 2020.

It seems like a good gun, though I only have a couple hundred rounds through it so far. Light weight and compact. Reasonably accurate, at least to the 25 yards I've been able to shoot it. A lot of fun. Cool looking. It is a 9mm, though, so it is limited to the strengths of that pistol cartridge. I'm not a hunter; but I think it would do OK as a survival gun to take some game. It's still a 9mm, though, not a .308. If, God forbid, I ever end up in a gun fight I'd rather have the Sub2000 than a handgun. But then, I'd rather have an AR15. Or maybe a tank.

I think it deserves to have a few upgrades done. I'll probably eventually spend as much money at mcarbo picking up some upgrades as I did on the original gun. But gun ownership is a hobby as well as a serious practical pursuit, so that is OK.

I understand they have a multi-mag version where you can change the type of magazine it takes. Since I'm going to match it up with a full size pistol, I would love to eventually get one setup for Beretta 92 mags. Honestly, I so much prefer shooting the Beretta than the Glock. The Glock shoots great (I have a 19 as well as the new 17), and is good to have because of its' popularity; but I just can't seem to like it. I love the Beretta, even if it is a boat anchor.

I haven't shot the Ruger PCC that I was originally after. Now I'm thinking that things worked out right. The Ruger is a break down gun, so can be reasonably compact (though it appears not as compact as the Kel-Tec); but if it was ever called to be used as a serious weapon, the Kel-Tec would be much quicker to get into action. Eventually I'll probably get the Ruger, too; but I don't feel the need to rush at this point.

Excuse my lengthy review. Now that I'm done and it is too late, here is the TLDR: The Sub 2000 is a gun that fits into a narrow niche of packable long gun that ideally should be matched with a compatible pistol. It is fun, but perhaps a little rough. Reasonably accurate. For my mission it is a Must Have. For others, it depends on your mission criteria.

Saw a Ruger PC Carbine- new one on the rack at The Gun Shop in Essex this afternoon. They had a bunch last week but only saw one today.

Crazytrain · Dec 31, 2020

Travis Bickle said:
1. Trigger is absolute garbage.
For me the point of a PCC is to be able to have a small gun capable of fast controllable fire. With the sub2k trigger firing quickly is difficult.

Can't really disagree. I didn't hate the trigger; but would never call it good. I'll probably buy the mcarbo trigger kit. I might get the higher sights, too, though I can acquire ok with the current ones. Actually, I might just get all the gizmos they have (except for the red dot sight mount...I think that somewhat defeats the purpose of the foldability and compactness). This may boost the end cost over the value; but I think it will be worth it for me.

Crazytrain · Dec 31, 2020

Mark392001 said:
Saw a Ruger PC Carbine- new one on the rack at The Gun Shop in Essex this afternoon. They had a bunch last week but only saw one today.

Hmmm... Tempting. I think I might be pushing my luck with the wife, though. Still...hmmm...

Slowhand · Dec 31, 2020

I had a Gen2, 9mm, G19. Put in the MCarbo trigger, buffer pad, folding mount reddot, and two-finger cocking handle. Shot straight, folds nicely. Fun gun. I used G19, G17, and 33rnd mags. Zero probs. Cut out a Milwaulkie tool case to fit. I just sold it because I was shopping for an expensive new toy.

Kimber45 · Dec 31, 2020

Love my Sub 2K g17 had it for a few years now. I replaced the trigger and a few other parts with MCARBO parts. I have no problem getting a good check weld and site picture, Have heard a lot of others complain about it though. Points easily and no problem with quick follow up shots. It's pretty damn accurate too. I have no problem busting clay birds at 100 yards with irons from a rest. When I got it the front site was canted to the left, it was a pain in the ass to fix. I'm not the only one, it has been a common problem for awhile. I hope they fixed the issue by now.

Darkemp · Dec 31, 2020

Adam said:
Hmmm... Tempting. I think I might be pushing my luck with the wife, though. Still...hmmm...

Doesn’t seem like a run on them right now, Ruger seems to be resupplying all of their firearms pretty well lately compared to some other mfrs.

[Kev308] · Dec 31, 2020

I like my sub 2k and use it as my HD carbine. I have had an issue with mine. Loose housing screws caused the trigger to not function. It has light recoil and a good natural sight picture when you raise the rifle. I have put a laser/light combo on it and use the irons.

Kimber45 · Dec 31, 2020

Missouri Tactical Products LLC SUB2000G2 Recoil Pad (Black)

They make a nice slip on recoil pad for those that think the sub 2k kicks a bit too much. Adds a bit to LOP also.

Flametamer · Dec 31, 2020

Must-have, probably not (for me). Fun to shoot, Yes indeed (especially with happy sticks). Useful, Yes, it fills a niche better I think than a take-down PC carbine, as described above. Light and pack-able. It is snappy, even in 9mm. Recoil pad helps, especially with LOP. I found a folding fore grip helps to increase the 'set' into the shoulder pocket. As noted above, the stock trigger is not great; I polished the internal mating surfaces and that made a world of difference; still not competition trigger, but definitely better than stock.

Not Sure · Jan 1, 2021

I have the Sub2000. It is accurate, 12" gong at 100yds. I got the Glock version because I have a G17 and can share the mags. I would recommend purchasing the upgraded charging handle button. Better on the fingers. The peep sight is fine but I found it a little difficult. Had to get in really tight for a good sight picture. Wife and kids have no problem. My wife likes it more than I do. Her rapid fire grouping at 25yds is great. All 32rds inside 10" in 15sec. She complained that her finger was getting tired. I just said Ookay. The objective is to fire a few rounds, observe the target, repeat as needed. Her reply was the funniest. "You got extra magazines right?"

Speed3 · Jan 1, 2021

Like everyone else has stated, decent gun, excels at being a truck gun as it folds nice an compact. I shot a friend's and the buffer tube will hit your cheek and make it uncomfy to shoot after 60 rounds or so. Its plastic and feels cheap, trigger is OK(better than a versamax), but I put a mags worth of shots all touching at 25 yards. I was pleasantly surprised with the accuracy.

dleary13115 · Jan 1, 2021

I find it somewhat uncomfortable to shoot. But for the $400 I paid for mine, the affordability, concealability, and magazine interchangeability with my Glocks make it a worthy carbine.

To the fellow who posted the M-Carbo info on page-1, thank you. I will be purchasing their recoil pad and probably the optic mount.

slsc98 · Jan 1, 2021

All preceding posts pretty much nut on, I have a Gen 1 in Glock 23 mag compat. .40 and a Gen 2 in Glock 19 mag compat. 9mm,

both via CDNN Sports in TX where it appears (like everywhere else) prices have jumped (in this case from $400 to $450) but hey, they actually have ‘em so, what is one two do? oops! There last week and this week? ... poof, they’re gone! https://www.cdnnsports.com/firearms.html?category_2=FIREARMS/HUNTING+RIFLES&manufacturer=KEL-TEC Oh well, check every week (or subscribe for their mailer and they’ll be back in stock again (just be ready)

I didn’t know about the McArbo upgraded versions available, they’re certainly an interesting option and one I’d consider strongly if I didn’t have a number of other PCC’s ...

Haha, make sure you get this for $2 (+ shipping) though!

https://www.mcarbo.com/3/8-x-8-assembly-dowel.aspx

https://youtu.be/Ezs16_CLDso

Quote: “The (3/8” dia) wooden Birch Dowel is nonabrasive. ... We had them custom manufactured just for this application.”

:lol:

Growler215 · Jan 2, 2021

Me likely. It fills a niche for me.

I've got the G17 gen2 version. Added a light, a paraclip (mlok), a rubber tube cover, and a red dot w/qd mount (moved to bottom for folding.)

When folded, it fits neatly in a stud mounted wall "safe."

Downsides are excessive trigger creep and no lrbho.

DontTreadOnMe · Jan 2, 2021

I liked the idea and had to have one. Once I got it I didn’t like it—not that fun to shoot and I questioned the quality and reliability. Sold it and glad I did. YMMV.

Sam Salvati · Jan 2, 2021

Even mcarbo has flaws. I got a canted front sight. No biggy for me to fix, but at that price it shouldn’t happen.

Sirex · Jan 2, 2021

I would not buy one. I had a SU16 and had issues with it. I sold that rifle when I started reading on the Keltec forum itself about the receivers cracking. Mine had not, but I wasn't willing to risk it, lifetime warranty or not. There have been a few reports of the SU2000s breaking apart.
https://forum.mcarbo.com/t/uh-oh-gen-2-s2k-receiver-broke-in-half/4101
https://www.thektog.org/threads/my-sub2k-just-broke-in-half.255245/
https://www.thektog.org/threads/only-6-rounds-and-sub2000-broke.269904/
https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/So-my-new-Keltec-Sub-2000-9mm-just-kaboomed-/5-2188239/
https://ireviewgear.com/cool-gear/kel-tec-sub-2000-gen-2-buyer-warning-review/

Now, I know all guns can break. Heck, I even saw reports of the lowers on CZ Scorpions breaking, which has made me questioning selling mine to buy another 9mm carbine if I can find it. But, it seemed Keltec has more issues with their polymer than some. I am not damning the guns, just stating I would not get one, and giving you some resources to base your decision off of. Good luck.

Glaron · Jan 2, 2021

Sirex said:
I would not buy one. I had a SU16 and had issues with it. I sold that rifle when I started reading on the Keltec forum itself about the receivers cracking. Mine had not, but I wasn't willing to risk it, lifetime warranty or not. There have been a few reports of the SU2000s breaking apart.
https://forum.mcarbo.com/t/uh-oh-gen-2-s2k-receiver-broke-in-half/4101
https://www.thektog.org/threads/my-sub2k-just-broke-in-half.255245/
https://www.thektog.org/threads/only-6-rounds-and-sub2000-broke.269904/
https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/So-my-new-Keltec-Sub-2000-9mm-just-kaboomed-/5-2188239/
https://ireviewgear.com/cool-gear/kel-tec-sub-2000-gen-2-buyer-warning-review/
Now, I know all guns can break. Heck, I even saw reports of the lowers on CZ Scorpions breaking, which has made me questioning selling mine to buy another 9mm carbine if I can find it. But, it seemed Keltec has more issues with their polymer than some. I am not damning the guns, just stating I would not get one, and giving you some resources to base your decision off of. Good luck.

Useful discussion material. But people that complain far outweigh people that are happy and never bother to look at the web forums.

You have some numbers with that? Asking for a friend.

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