10 Round Magazine CCW / Wear & Carry

[Sunrise]

I did my ccw class at worth a shot and they said the same thing. 10 rounds for carry

Yes. From your lips to Nortons ears.

They are wrong. I am sorry to hear that you spent money and received an inferior product. Depending on your location, there are a number of instructors on this board who can help you. I'd venture to guess that most won't ******** you just to collect your money.

Did they also infer that firearm owners must store them in a safe and that they happen to have them for sale out in the showroom? That's also another nugget of theirs.

One thing to consider is how a Court/Jury will treat your claim of self-defense if there's an incident and you've carried/used a firearm with a "Plus 10" Magazine.

Self-Defense is an affirmative defense to a crime, and if that claim fails, then you're guilty of a crime... which means you used a "Plus 10" Magazine in the commission of a crime.

Perhaps the instructor was attempting to communicate this?

 

[4g64loser]

One thing to consider is how a Court/Jury will treat your claim of self-defense if there's an incident and you've carried/used a firearm with a "Plus 10" Magazine.

Self-Defense is an affirmative defense to a crime, and if that claim fails, then you're guilty of a crime... which means you used a "Plus 10" Magazine in the commission of a crime.

Perhaps the instructor was attempting to communicate this?

If I am going down for murder or manslaughter, the last thing I care about is that tack on charge.

If the instructor was attempting to communicate what you day, they did a shit job. Based on multiple accounts from students unfortunate enough to spend money with them.

 

[Sunrise]

If I am going down for murder or manslaughter, the last thing I care about is that tack on charge.

It doesn't have to be murder or manslaughter. It can be First Degree Assault, which includes "illegal threat with a firearm" aka "brandishing".

Magazines in Maryland

...

www.marylandshallissue.org

So, nothing in Section 4-305 prohibits a permit holder from possessing and carrying a magazine with more than 10 rounds of capacity. That said, be aware that MD Code, Criminal Law, § 4-306(b), provides that a person who uses a magazine that has a capacity of more than 10 rounds in the commission of a felony or a crime of violence is subject to a minimum sentence of 5 years in addition to any sentence imposed for the crime itself. SO, don't use your magazine in any crimes of violence or felonies (e.g., First Degree Assault), and you will be fine.

Be aware that First Degree Assault includes the illegal threat with a firearm (sometimes called informally "brandishing"). See MD Code, Criminal Law, § 3-202(a)(2). Of course, if your life is truly imminently at risk or you are at imminent risk of great bodily harm, and you can meet the other elements of lawful self-defense (including the duty to retreat if outside the home, if a safe avenue of retreat is available), as defined in the MD case law, your attorney could assert a complete defense to the First Degree Assault charge.

The Rule: Don't pull it, and don't threaten with it, unless you would be otherwise justified in actually firing it. For First Degree Assault, the prosecutor need only show that the defendant used a firearm with an intent to frighten, that the defendant had the present ability to bring about physical harm and that the victim was aware of the threat. See Synder v. State, 210 Md.App.370, 382 (2013). First Degree Assault is a felony in Maryland and is punishable by up to 25 years in prison. The use of, or the threat of lethal force, should always be the last resort.

 

[Blaster229]

One thing to consider is how a Court/Jury will treat your claim of self-defense if there's an incident and you've carried/used a firearm with a "Plus 10" Magazine.

Self-Defense is an affirmative defense to a crime, and if that claim fails, then you're guilty of a crime... which means you used a "Plus 10" Magazine in the commission of a crime.

Perhaps the instructor was attempting to communicate this?

Trying to be an expert. Pretty sure they can't cite any trial where this was an issue.

 

[E.Shell]

Trying to be an expert. Pretty sure they can't cite any trial where this was an issue.

Yup, and I'd go a step further and say he was trying to communicate misinformation.

 

[Sunrise]

Trying to be an expert. Pretty sure they can't cite any trial where this was an issue.

Yup, and I'd go a step further and say he was trying to communicate misinformation.

I agree this was very poorly communicated.

Instructor should have stated what MSI has here.

If you are carrying a "Plus 10" Magazine, it's something to keep in mind.

 

[Blaster229]

I agree this was very poorly communicated.

Instructor should have stated what MSI has here.

Instructor should say that magazines over 10 rounds are legal to posess. That's it.

 

[rbird7282]

Did they also infer that firearm owners must store them in a safe and that they happen to have them for sale out in the showroom? That's also another nugget of theirs.

Don’t forget about 6 o’clock carry, it’s the only way.


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[rbird7282]

I agree this was very poorly communicated.

Instructor should have stated what MSI has here.

If you are carrying a "Plus 10" Magazine, it's something to keep in mind.

I carry with mags over ten rounds and don’t think twice about it, not even a little.
Don’t threaten people, don’t be a moron, very easy.


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[Sunrise]

Instructor should say that magazines over 10 rounds are legal to posess. That's it.

I disagree. I think it's important to teach/know the potential legal implications of carrying "Plus 10" Magazines as MSI stated here.

 

[Bullfrog]

I disagree. I think it's important to teach/know the potential legal implications of carrying "Plus 10" Magazines as MSI stated here.

That isn't what they are doing, though.

Every person who has posted here about it has said they were told it was "illegal".

It is clear they don't understand the law themselves, so zero chance they are trying to correctly educate students about the "risk" of additional liability.

 

[Sunrise]

I carry with mags over ten rounds and don’t think twice about it, not even a little.
Don’t threaten people, don’t be a moron, very easy.


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And I believe a MD instructor should definitely teach this. The students can then choose what's best for them based on accurate information as MSI provided here.

 

[Sunrise]

That isn't what they are doing, though.

Every person who has posted here about it has said they were told it was "illegal".

It is clear they don't understand the law themselves, so zero chance they are trying to correctly educate students about the "risk" of additional liability.

I agree with you on that.

I was attempting to be as charitable as possible, but it's clear these instructors have no idea what they're talking about given this additional context.

 

[Blaster229]

I disagree. I think it's important to teach/know the potential legal implications of carrying "Plus 10" Magazines as MSI stated here.

You and I will never be in the same shooting circle.
Ask MSI if there has ever been a case. Ask MSI if their staff only carry 10 round mags for that reason.
I expect a legal entity to have that point of view. That's fine.
I don't have any issues with when my "go time" is when using lethal self defense. I'll be good.
Your(and their) mileage may vary.

 

[Occam]

I carry mine in the safe so it stays out of children's hand. I am saving lives.

Outside the latest MDS get-together:

 

[Biggfoot44]

If we mean Sunrise , he didn't step over the line for literal MISinformation , but was pulling out the stop for exercising extreme discretion .

 

[Sunrise]

You and I will never be in the same shooting circle.
Ask MSI if there has ever been a case. Ask MSI if their staff only carry 10 round mags for that reason.
I expect a legal entity to have that point of view. That's fine.
I don't have any issues with when my "go time" is when using lethal self defense. I'll be good.
Your(and their) mileage may vary.

MSI is posting this specific guidance for a reason and it's accurate information people should know when they're assessing their MD carry choices.

Those are certainly fair questions to ask MSI, and their staff may have different opinions on it and/or carry different firearms/magazines because of it.

My point is that MD instructors should accurately explain to their students what's on this MSI page and then let their students decide for themselves what they feel is best for them.

It's not about you using lethal self-defense. In fact, as MSI explained, it could involve First Degree Assault, which is "brandishing".

 

[Sunrise]

Outside the latest MDS get-together:

These men have a lot on their minds.

Heavy is the head that wears the safe.

 

[Biggfoot44]

Instructor should say that magazines over 10 rounds are legal to posess. That's it.

No mentioning 3-202 is proper and full disclosure . But it should be presented straight , with proper context .

Added - FWIW , most of my usual carry guns are moot . But that's because my tastes run to Revolvers and Single Stacks , not because of the 10rd thing .

But it's not about my personal preferences , it's about Rights and the law .

 

[Sunrise]

If we mean Sunrise , he didn't step over the line for literal MISinformation , but was pulling out the stop for exercising extreme discretion .

Thank you. The instructor(s) did their students a disservice.

No mentioning 3-202 is proper and full disclosure . But it should be presented straight , with proper context .

Agreed. An instructor should be forthright about the content that's explained on this MSI Page and how it could affect their students in MD.