12ga Recipe for Fiocchi 616

[Yingpin]

Wondering if anyone has any experience with these. I have an opportunity to get some of the Fiocci 616 Primers but I am not sure that it will work with my planned recipe.

I may be able to source Alient Clay Dot powder but I cannot find a recipe for the Fiocchi 616 primers. The only powder I have found (From Hodgdon) is the Hodgdon Clays powder.

I know that it is slim picking and a terrible time to get into reloading but I am almost there to pump out a few shells.

My current supplies for my trap loads include;
Remington Gun Club Hulls (2 3/4)
WAA12SL (equivalent) Wad
TGT 12 (Equivalent) Wad
Lead shot #8
Lead shot #7.5

 

[Markpixs]

I know folks will howl but if you're loading 17grains of Clay Dot you should be ok swapping the Fiocchi 616 for Rem209 or Win209 data. You can also email Alliant with your component specs and they usually respond -https://www.alliantpowder.com/questions/default.aspx or give them a call - Alliant Powder representative will be available to answer your calls between 7 a.m. - 7 p.m. CT Monday through Friday (866) 286-7436. Some folks don't like the 616, claim it enlarges the primer pocket but haven't had that problem. If you're not trying to push 1300FPS you are well in safe pressure range. Wouldn't say the same for using Fed 209A.
Check this, Tom runs pressure testing if you want to go that way. - http://www.armbrust.acf2.org/primersubs.htm

 

[Markpixs]

If you were closer I'd swap you Win 209s in an even swap.

 

[slsc98]

I know folks will howl but if you're loading 17grains of Clay Dot you should be ok swapping the Fiocchi 616 for Rem209 or Win209 data. You can also email Alliant with your component specs and they usually respond -https://www.alliantpowder.com/questions/default.aspx or give them a call - Alliant Powder representative will be available to answer your calls between 7 a.m. - 7 p.m. CT Monday through Friday (866) 286-7436. Some folks don't like the 616, claim it enlarges the primer pocket but haven't had that problem. If you're not trying to push 1300FPS you are well in safe pressure range. Wouldn't say the same for using Fed 209A.
Check this, Tom runs pressure testing if you want to go that way. - http://www.armbrust.acf2.org/primersubs.htm

^^^This^^^ an old clay busting buddy still there in MD and I went in on, literally, PALLETS of Fiocchi 616’s delivered to us directly off the drop gate behind a tractor trailer out of NY and I’m sitting on amounts that'd have others here accuse me of outright lying. Therefore; I. Use. Them. As. Substitutes. For. All. Other. Primers. In 12 and 28 ga. But then, I typically reload and shoot only 1/2, 5/8, 3/4 and 7/8 in 12 ga and 5/8 in 28ga almost exclusively. Low pressures are the name of the game for me in shothsell reloading.Markpix is spot on about the sliiiiiiight stretch of primer pockets but, by the time I went all in on the 616’s I’d already made my mind up I was never going back to Win’s (or, and back then you could still find, Rem and Fed 209’s). Alliant is great about answering hobbyists queries but plead understanding they answer questions in between other, Fulltime responsibilities and sometimes it can take days to get back to us. Actually, iirc they prefer emails over phone calls and if I can find any of the direct email addressses for individual employee there I used to have (back in the 2000’s) I’ll pm them to you. “Paul” there was always especially helpful!

Best o’ success!

ETA: Geez, I was dozing off and remembered one anomaly of those 616’s and that is the sometimes wide standard deviations between primers. Perhaps not current production but most definitely back when I was buying them and on SGW.com there is a poster “Republican” who tipped me off to erratic performance of some reloads - particularly in our Benelli semi-autos - definitively being traced to our FIO 616 primers. I got around the problem in my SuperSport II by increasing my payloads to an ounce (any more and I woulda sold that gun) while in my original Sport i can get by with a full 7/8’s but no less. Switch to any other primer (incl Cheddite or Nobel) and I can shoot 7/8 Oz reloads out of the big Sport II and 3/4oz out of the Sport.

Will you be shooting your reloads out of a semi-auto shotgun and if so, will it be a Benelli inertia system or a gas operated system (ie Rem 1100)? If so, just be aware of just that one peculiarity (wide deviations in performance, relative to other primers) of at least the old, old Fiocchi 616’s. I know zero about the current production FIO’s


PS - unless I missed it I don’t see what Oz payload you’ll be going with but 7/8oz is the shizzit for trap and the TGT 12 was will give you better stack height and crimps with 7/8oz in Rem Gun Club hulls. (The new WinnHS hulls have that additional plastic base cup in them that makes stack 7/8oz heights just fine with either of your wads. And of course 7/8oz typically means lower pressures than 1oz which makes your substituting in those FIO 616’s even more rational.

 

[Yingpin]

^^^This^^^ an old clay busting buddy still there in MD and I went in on, literally, PALLETS of Fiocchi 616’s delivered to us directly off the drop gate behind a tractor trailer out of NY and I’m sitting on amounts that'd have others here accuse me of outright lying. Therefore; I. Use. Them. As. Substitutes. For. All. Other. Primers. In 12 and 28 ga. But then, I typically reload and shoot only 1/2, 5/8, 3/4 and 7/8 in 12 ga and 5/8 in 28ga almost exclusively. Low pressures are the name of the game for me in shothsell reloading.Markpix is spot on about the sliiiiiiight stretch of primer pockets but, by the time I went all in on the 616’s I’d already made my mind up I was never going back to Win’s (or, and back then you could still find, Rem and Fed 209’s). Alliant is great about answering hobbyists queries but plead understanding they answer questions in between other, Fulltime responsibilities and sometimes it can take days to get back to us. Actually, iirc they prefer emails over phone calls and if I can find any of the direct email addressses for individual employee there I used to have (back in the 2000’s) I’ll pm them to you. “Paul” there was always especially helpful!

Best o’ success!

ETA: Geez, I was dozing off and remembered one anomaly of those 616’s and that is the sometimes wide standard deviations between primers. Perhaps not current production but most definitely back when I was buying them and on SGW.com there is a poster “Republican” who tipped me off to erratic performance of some reloads - particularly in our Benelli semi-autos - definitively being traced to our FIO 616 primers. I got around the problem in my SuperSport II by increasing my payloads to an ounce (any more and I woulda sold that gun) while in my original Sport i can get by with a full 7/8’s but no less. Switch to any other primer (incl Cheddite or Nobel) and I can shoot 7/8 Oz reloads out of the big Sport II and 3/4oz out of the Sport.

Will you be shooting your reloads out of a semi-auto shotgun and if so, will it be a Benelli inertia system or a gas operated system (ie Rem 1100)? If so, just be aware of just that one peculiarity (wide deviations in performance, relative to other primers) of at least the old, old Fiocchi 616’s. I know zero about the current production FIO’s


PS - unless I missed it I don’t see what Oz payload you’ll be going with but 7/8oz is the shizzit for trap and the TGT 12 was will give you better stack height and crimps with 7/8oz in Rem Gun Club hulls. (The new WinnHS hulls have that additional plastic base cup in them that makes stack 7/8oz heights just fine with either of your wads. And of course 7/8oz typically means lower pressures than 1oz which makes your substituting in those FIO 616’s even more rational.

Thanks for the reply. I was leaning toward 1oz but this is pretty new. The wads I have are for 1oz loads. I am open to 7/8 and really I am limited to what I can find available. We have a 1200FPS or less policy so I need to stay under that. I will be shooting with a Browning O/U as my primary clay buster. The Fiocchi Website shows .242 for the 616 and shows Win 209 at .241.