ken792
Ultimate Member
A few members voiced their concerns, so I'm deleting this.
Last edited:
200 grains in a flintlock pistol
- Thread starter ken792
- Start date
The #1 community for Gun Owners of the Northeast
Member Benefits:
No ad networks! Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership Discuss anti-gun legislation Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses Discover free outdoor shooting areas View up to date on firearm-related events Share photos & video with other members ...and so much more!
Member Benefits:
Half-cocked
Senior Meatbag
- Mar 14, 2006
- 23,937
What powder??
ken792
Ultimate Member
I put 25 grains of 3F, and then the balance Pyrodex P.
Harabec Weathers
El Segundo
You forgot to mention the coolest part: the smoke ring that led the cloud out to 25-ish yards.
ken792
Ultimate Member
Well, I couldn't see that from behind the cloud, haha.
Dan_G
Active Member
That ring was pretty awesome
DennisCA
Active Member
I'm assuming it was all powder??
ken792
Ultimate Member
Nope, shoved a patched ball over it. The whole thing filled up half the barrel.
That's one way to remove excess hair from your knuckles :-)
OP, I am sure the flames and smoke is really cool but, Is that a safe published load in that pistol ?
ken792
Ultimate Member
I'm fairly certain it is since the barrel is so thick and of modern steel.
Half-cocked
Senior Meatbag
- Mar 14, 2006
- 23,937
DoormanTNT
Ultimate Member
WOW....
That is outright dangerous. Your not really attached to your hands are ya?
That is a heavy BLANK load, but to patch and ball is just dumb.
Read up on that before you brag to much about your upcoming Darwin award.
I mean no disrespect to you. And will not get into an internet dispute, but posting this is in no way safe or condoned.
Good luck, glad you made it out unharmed.
That is outright dangerous. Your not really attached to your hands are ya?
That is a heavy BLANK load, but to patch and ball is just dumb.
Read up on that before you brag to much about your upcoming Darwin award.
I mean no disrespect to you. And will not get into an internet dispute, but posting this is in no way safe or condoned.
Good luck, glad you made it out unharmed.
Eviljagtech
Infected w/ Freedom
That load would not hurt the barrel, I would though be worried about the stock and how tight that barrel is in it though, the wood may not like the stress. That is if the barrel is proofed, meaning it got about 150 gr of bp and 2 or more oversize balls rammed down it and fired with no damage. This though doesn't cover the stock which could send a barrel through your head. I know my fathers Hawken he built was proofed with 300 gr with 4 balls down it, though max rating is 150 gr volume.
Good Boy, lol. Hang on I'm loading up now.
So let's see, 25 grn of 3F and 175 grn of Pyrodex P, Its a game changer when you load with Pyrodex, Its almost impossible to overload using Black Powder.
When you overload using Pyrodex you can run the pressures up in a rifle using 120 grns to 30,000 psi.
You need to read Lymans Black Powder book. Also search Lyman Ballistic Labs using Pyrodex.
You should not have deleated your post !!!!!
When you overload using Pyrodex you can run the pressures up in a rifle using 120 grns to 30,000 psi.
You need to read Lymans Black Powder book. Also search Lyman Ballistic Labs using Pyrodex.
You should not have deleated your post !!!!!
Last edited:
Here, This might help you understand the situation you are putting yourself and all the other unknowing
people around you at the range. As a person who is President / Founder of a Rifle / Pistol Club you should know better. Well its all fun and games until your flintlock evaporates in your hands.
As scrutiny of the muzzleloading market quickly reveals, there are no muzzleloading standards. There are no standards for metal, bore-size, testing, or much of anything. Where SAAMI and the CIP have clear standards for cheap rimfires, pistols, shotguns, as well as rifles-it is a brave new world when you look at muzzleloaders. It is quite a mess, and has been for a long time. The term "Magnum Muzzleloader" means nothing specific at all . . . just another cheap marketing label.
So, how do we know what a muzzleloader of reasonable build quality should do? Good question, as the manufacturers have still failed to set minimum standards or otherwise control themselves. Companies that are, in my opinion, sleazy and smarmy like "CVA" and "Traditions" can make muzzleloading a lousy to place to be.
Public pressure information has long been available, as evidenced in the LYMAN Black Powder Handbook & Loading Manual written by Sam Fadala. Lyman Ballistic Laboratories data has been above reproach for decades. If you check pages 172-177 of the second edition of the Lyman book, you will quickly obtain a grasp of what muzzleloading pressures may be. You'll see that 120 grains by volume of Pyrodex RS pushing a 240 grain Hornady sabot can develop 29,900 PSI. You'll find many, many loads developing well over 25,000 PSI peak pressure. A three pellet load can develop 29,000 PSI peak pressure, as shown by Lyman. That still isn't the top pressure loads that are published; some are well above 30,000 PSI with 120 grains of Pyrodex. Loose powder loads heavier than 120 grains by volume of Pyrodex are not touched upon, though heavier loads and hotter propellants than Pyrodex are in common, popular use.
Based on all this, the question becomes obvious. If an inline muzzleloading manufacturer refuses to tell you in writing that their rifles have not been tested to withstand a constant diet of 30,000 PSI peak pressure loads safely, their guns should not be so much as sold, much less used by today's consumer.
This is such a simple, basic, common-sense thing to ask that no reputable inline muzzleloading manufacturer should have any problem answering it in writing without hesitation. If they can't, there are richly deserving of all the scorn and contempt we can possibly lavish on them. It is bad metallurgy and lack of testing that keeps 911 busy for some tragic victims year after year. Shooting a breechplug into your skull or a barrel relieving you of the use of your hand is something I've personally seen far too much of. Sadly, most of it is both unnecessary and avoidable. It all starts with proper design, good metallurgy, and then testing to confirm. That muzzleloaders are sold by those who just don't know should shock and appall all of us.
people around you at the range. As a person who is President / Founder of a Rifle / Pistol Club you should know better. Well its all fun and games until your flintlock evaporates in your hands.
As scrutiny of the muzzleloading market quickly reveals, there are no muzzleloading standards. There are no standards for metal, bore-size, testing, or much of anything. Where SAAMI and the CIP have clear standards for cheap rimfires, pistols, shotguns, as well as rifles-it is a brave new world when you look at muzzleloaders. It is quite a mess, and has been for a long time. The term "Magnum Muzzleloader" means nothing specific at all . . . just another cheap marketing label.
So, how do we know what a muzzleloader of reasonable build quality should do? Good question, as the manufacturers have still failed to set minimum standards or otherwise control themselves. Companies that are, in my opinion, sleazy and smarmy like "CVA" and "Traditions" can make muzzleloading a lousy to place to be.
Public pressure information has long been available, as evidenced in the LYMAN Black Powder Handbook & Loading Manual written by Sam Fadala. Lyman Ballistic Laboratories data has been above reproach for decades. If you check pages 172-177 of the second edition of the Lyman book, you will quickly obtain a grasp of what muzzleloading pressures may be. You'll see that 120 grains by volume of Pyrodex RS pushing a 240 grain Hornady sabot can develop 29,900 PSI. You'll find many, many loads developing well over 25,000 PSI peak pressure. A three pellet load can develop 29,000 PSI peak pressure, as shown by Lyman. That still isn't the top pressure loads that are published; some are well above 30,000 PSI with 120 grains of Pyrodex. Loose powder loads heavier than 120 grains by volume of Pyrodex are not touched upon, though heavier loads and hotter propellants than Pyrodex are in common, popular use.
Based on all this, the question becomes obvious. If an inline muzzleloading manufacturer refuses to tell you in writing that their rifles have not been tested to withstand a constant diet of 30,000 PSI peak pressure loads safely, their guns should not be so much as sold, much less used by today's consumer.
This is such a simple, basic, common-sense thing to ask that no reputable inline muzzleloading manufacturer should have any problem answering it in writing without hesitation. If they can't, there are richly deserving of all the scorn and contempt we can possibly lavish on them. It is bad metallurgy and lack of testing that keeps 911 busy for some tragic victims year after year. Shooting a breechplug into your skull or a barrel relieving you of the use of your hand is something I've personally seen far too much of. Sadly, most of it is both unnecessary and avoidable. It all starts with proper design, good metallurgy, and then testing to confirm. That muzzleloaders are sold by those who just don't know should shock and appall all of us.
Blacksmith101
Grumpy Old Man
- Jun 22, 2012
- 22,366
To further compound the metallurgy and manufacturing issues with the nut that holds the trigger deciding how much powder and what size ball to use, if a little is good a whole lot must be better mentality instead of a cartridge manufacturing facility. Add in if so and so did 200 I'll try 300 in my cheaply made wall hanger and there is a recipe for a lot of bad press and calls for more government regulations.
What you do effects others.
What you do effects others.
DennisCA
Active Member
Personally I think he got flat a * * lucky (twice)!
If he keeps that up there will be probably a accident!
If he keeps that up there will be probably a accident!
Half-cocked
Senior Meatbag
- Mar 14, 2006
- 23,937
I'm not disputing the coolness of that photo (it WAS pretty awesome!), but "concern" is the correct word - I don't think anyone was trying to pee on your parade, they just wanted to warn you of the risk involved, and dissuade anyone else from trying to imitate it.
Chances are, you could do this a dozen more times, maybe even 100 or more times - and not have an accident. But loading that much powder behind a PRB will, eventually, cause an ugly catastrophe.
In statistics, even 1 in a million odds are terrible, for frequently repeated events. At that rate, we would have daily incidents, given the number of shooters and the number of shots fired every day in this country. Loads must be safe enough so that even over billions of discharges, there should still be an infinitesimally small chance of a catastrophic failure.
Stay safe!
