2A Tuesday?

[Schipperke]

Yes. This whole thing is bigger than the gun community. It has to do with changing the political landscape. Most of these people will not listen to what we have to say. Some will. Dumais asked for MSI input on a bill she was proposing this year. Shocking. Is that a big in-road? Nope. A lot more than we would get if we acted like a bag of dicks. Nobody is saying people need to be the comfort girls of the legislature.

At a Silver Spring pony show, she actually said "I know nothing about guns".
Thinking to myself, then why are people that share the same trait together so busy writing laws about firearms.

 

[CrazySanMan]

Yes. This whole thing is bigger than the gun community. It has to do with changing the political landscape. Most of these people will not listen to what we have to say. Some will. Dumais asked for MSI input on a bill she was proposing this year. Shocking. Is that a big in-road? Nope. A lot more than we would get if we acted like a bag of dicks. Nobody is saying people need to be the comfort girls of the legislature.

Yeah. I'm not saying to get up in Dumais' face and scream at her or call her names. I'm saying to protest in front of her office and tell the media she is violating the civil rights of Maryland and the bills she authors are racist. 20 in front of her office would have a bigger impact than 200 in Annapolis for 2A Tuesday.

 

[PJDiesel]

20 in front of her office would have a bigger impact than 200 in Annapolis for 2A Tuesday.

This.

 

[teratos]

Yeah. I'm not saying to get up in Dumais' face and scream at her or call her names. I'm saying to protest in front of her office and tell the media she is violating the civil rights of Maryland and the bills she authors are racist. 20 in front of her office would have a bigger impact than 200 in Annapolis for 2A Tuesday.

I can't disagree. Of course, we need 20 of her constituents there.

 

[CrazySanMan]

I can't disagree. Of course, we need 20 of her constituents there.

Need to move any more discussion to the WC too...

 

[Charles Guggenheimer]

Just my 2 cents

I was able to show up for the rally yesterday, but unfortunately all my MSI blue items were back home in Pennsylvania, and I drove straight there from Delaware.

When MSI started (and I was there from day one when MSI got started) there were already plenty of anti-gun laws in Maryland, but the laser-focus of the group was to promote MORE Maryland concealed carry permit holders any way possible. Under Governor Ehrlich, Maryland was one of the first to issue LEOSA permits to law enforcement members, and many business owners were able to get concealed carry permits, and some people applied expecting to be turned down and still got their permits approved. Unfortunately even little legislative tweaks, like ending the Ballistic Fingerprint program could not budge until O'Malley was no longer Governor.

When O'Malley and Frosh pushed the HQL through, MSI's concealed carry permit focus got somewhat distracted and an effort to educate gun owners and provide low-cost or no-cost HQL training to those non-exempt HQL applicants became the new need. After all, it is difficult to increase the number of concealed carry handgun permit holders if they need to pay high fees simply to train for the HQL?

There seems to be a lot of contention about the one-shot requirement MSP has resurrected via COMAR after its defeat in the legislature. Besides fighting against this with more legislation and/or action by Governor Hogan, the gun ranges in the area "should be on board" with making it easier for HQL trainers to get applicants their one-shot needed as part of the HQL. When I was visiting in Florida one time, long ago, I decided to check out a Florida gun show, ended up taking the training for a Florida non-resident concealed carry permit, and the trainer had us drive and meet him at a local indoor range nearby the gun show and, pre-arranged with the range, we students lined up and one by one went to a single lane in the range, picked up the instructor's loaded .38 revolver and each fired a single shot at a target downrange. Why can't Maryland's indoor ranges do the same?

I believe Florida has since dropped this one-shot requirement. Maryland's gun community should do what they can to make this intended hurdle as simple to overcome as possible. More hand gun owners not only increases the pool of potential future concealed carry permit holders, but also pro-gun rights voters.

 

[iCoder80]

I can't disagree. Of course, we need 20 of her constituents there.

You would not need anywhere near 20. Just need a handful with posters protesting her violations of civil rights. Followed by Emily Miller showing up with her cameraman.

 

[Norton]

I totally understand that.



There was a comment from the owner to paraphase but damn close; "MSI would be nothing without MDS". Maybe absolutely true, but can see how that would rub someone who really does work his butt off lobbying.

You might want to do some research on that statement.

 

[eruby]

I was proud to stand with Cheesehead and Engine4 yesterday at the rally. I saw the good doctor and his hair, Fabio (Rack&Roll) and his colorful hat, and many MDS/MSI stalwarts.

Those continually bitching in this thread yet offering no solutions, why not simply leave the thread. I myself am sick of hearing the same crap over and over and over. You don't like it, offer suggestions or leave, Enough with constant carping. I won't say something crass like go fvck yourselves, or call you asssholes or shiitheads, I will simply ask you leave this thread to those that still carry on the fight.

p.s. Did Shannon Alford have to pay a royalty fee to the producers of Road House?

 

[kraftyone]

At the MSI meeting, I suggested that it was time to stop using a wonky, puzzle-palace organizational name like "Maryland Shall Issue".

On a shirt or a sign, the words "Maryland Shall Issue" have ZERO meaning to people unfamiliar with this inside-baseball legal battle between "shall" and "may" CCW permits in the gun community. No one in the grocery store is going to stop you when they see that logo on your shirt and ask you "tell me more about that!"

Time to change the name to "Maryland Self Defense" or to something that has real BRANDING power-- a phrase that starts conversations with people not in our camp, but who are worried about an increasingly dangerous environment.

How about Marylanders for Protection?

 

[moojersey]

Maryland Citizens Defense League

Mirror of our neighbors in Virginia

 

[Sthomas229]

Need to move any more discussion to the WC too...

Believe me, they have people with access to the WC. If you want secure comms, do it face to face.

 

[Brooklyn]

I am still trying to figure out MSI's purpose.

There are a fair number of people here that include MSI in their signatures. Yet, as I mentioned yesterday, my representatives do not view them as a factor.

I support the NRA and the SAF. I might support MSI if I could determine their mission. Their home page totally turns me off. It reads more like a Go Fund Me page. There internet forum, which I would expect to be very robust, is like a ghost town. Same half dozen members that seldom post.
They all have 20-30 times the post count on MDS.

There is just something wrong with that picture.

Not at all...feel free to support or not support whomever you chose..



Hell go it alone if you like..


Not going to lose sleep over it.

 

[Brooklyn]

I'm a 2013'er, but since I've been here I've always thought you guys are all too nice and try to take the high road whenever possible. That might be fine and dandy some places, but politics is down and dirty, mud slinging, stab-you-in-the-back-right-to-your-face. Politicians respect fear and power, they don't respect civility and politeness.

Every year you guys are nice and polite, and the "leadership" tells everyone to wait and continue to be polite, that things are working behind the scenes and you just need to hang tight and wait it out, and every year you go backwards and have more taken from you. Then we all hear about how the year was a victory because "it could have been worse".

I call shenanigans. You all need to get more aggressive. Get angry. Sling mud. Stomp your feet. Call names. Hell, the founding fathers would have been shooting by now. You guys are too soft and that is why the political machine rolls right over you each year.

Diana DeGette is my congresswoman here in Colorado. If you don't know her, she is the idiot that said that magazines were ammunition and once you shot them they were used up and couldn't be replaced. I signed up for her mailing list and her office sent me an invite to a community forum on the 13th. She recently sent me an email in reply to one I sent about gun legislation and said something ignorant like "3,000 children die each year in accidental gun shootings. We can't let that status quo continue". I'm going to show up there with stats from the CDC about child mortality rates from car accidents, bronchitis, etc., and question her about the issues that kill more children than guns do and why she doesn't do anything about those.

The 2A community in Maryland is much better organized than what I've seen anywhere else. Heck, the Colorado gun forums gets one new post ever three or four days. THat's why I stay here, you guys are the best organized and best informed group in the country. But you fight the fight all wrong. It's time for you to roll up your sleeves and get dirty.

No thanks... I will just move..

If others wish to roll in the mud...they are most welcome. I will not be doing so.

But I look forward to watching from the sidelines...

 

[Jim12]

Excerpted and bulleted ... with my comments.





First a 'full disclosure' - I am an MSI Exec and been so for almost six years. I don't always agree with our leadership, but I do salute and carry on. I have attended every rally/2ATuesday since the Open Holster Rallies, except for this one. I had even purchased a new MSI wind-breaker and beanie just for this occasion, but for very personal reasons I couldn't attend. None however, had to do with what I am about to say.

Professionally, I know what and how to draw a crowd. Professionally, I know what and how to engage people to action. Based on the comments above and throughout this thread, this years rally did neither. Was that MSI's issue or the NRA, that I cannot answer because I don't know if the NRA held sway over content decisions. However, MSI does walk a fine line being an advocacy organization in an era when the IRS is used as a weapon, so I'll leave it as that. But, I will note that candidates come and go, as well as elected officials, so what is the difference in having one who is seeking office speaking on behalf of 2A, and one who holds office (and wishes to continue holding office) doing the same ? Coaching both to avoid 'electioneering' is all that would have been needed.

Name draw is the way to get attendance, and advertising same is the way to do it. This year's rally had neither. Again, was that an NRA call, I can't answer. But, if past rallies where AGC, MSI, MSRPA, AND NRA linked arms were a measure, we had name recognition speakers and a better draw. We had disappointed attendees this year because we preached to the same old crowd from the same old handbook and new 2A converts (and old 2A vets) who came looking for 'fired up speakers' were let down.

I would also like to address the real purpose of 2ATuesday.

It typically has been the kickoff of 'gun week' when 2A-related legislation was introduced, so crowding the halls of the General Assembly to 'petition our grievances' was the focus, not the rally in particular. However, the rally got people fired up to do more than press-the-flesh with their politicians; it got them to speak out more forcefully. But, we also lacked a lot of information on what Pro and Anti 2A bills were being introduced, so engaging our representatives fell flat along with the rally. Lack of information may not have been a bad thing because it could mean that were not under threat this year, but don't forget ... we're behind the 8-Ball compared to 2A friendly states. With O'Malley getting 0.01% in Iowa, this could have been the year we started exposing the fallacy of his 85% support for FSA 2013, and used it to shame a few of its major supporters in the legislature ... both at the rally, and up close and personal in the halls of the GA.

Lastly, despondency is a problem. We put so much effort onto trying to stop FSA 2013, only to have the likes of Miller, Busch, and Frosh do the king's bidding for Owe'Malley by lying, cheating, and legislative chicanery, it's no wonder we feel like "what's the use". Well, the 'King' is dead (politically), long live the new King (Hogan). Rally behind him regardless of whether he is openly advocating for us because the king's consorts are still in Annapolis gleefully screwing us. Make Miller, Busch, and Frosh feel our wrath. They still hold sway, and either legislatively or extra-legally, they will block any Hogan effort to minimize the effects of FSA 2013 ... and as a good politician Hogan understands that. Back Hogan on his attacks on their tax and spend ways ... Miller, Busch, and Frosh (as a State Senator) BOUGHT their office and power with your tax money. Also, attack Frosh every time he attempts to make administrative law disguised as 'legal opinion' or reach out to his fellow anti-gun AGs to extend his influence. He can't be the left 'unchecked in the backfield' to issue his 'opinion' that a Pro 2A law is 'unconstitutional' as we push changes through the assembly.

I'm off my soapbox for now. Thoughts ?

Good post. I was there (Just my 3rd year, beginning in 2013) and came away with two impressions:

1) Several speakers' stories, which became the theme of the rally, was the importance of passing along 2A values to the next generation. Good and valuable, but why then and there?

2) We could better exploit an opportunity, both legislatively and in light of O'Malley's national political demise, to push back against FSA2013 and a large part of the impetus behind it: propelling O'Malley into national prominence. FSA2013 flew like a lead balloon on the national stage, and we haven't run with that. Granted, O'Malley dropped out of the race the night before the rally, but it wasn't unexpected. We could and should totally rub Miller's, Busch's, Dumais, Vallario's, and all the rest of their noses in the folly of their acts.

Also, given last year's success in obtaining repeal of the ballistic fingerprinting, we had some legislative momentum that wasn't followed up on this year. Why aren't we pushing e.g. to eliminate ALL fees associated with the HQL? There are 10-20 little steps that we could have pushed for.

I'll go again next year; movements take time to develop and get coordinated. Those who have done this for years are appreciated for their time, devotion, and efforts. We all owe it to our country -- and the generations to come -- to participate and push back against tyranny. Even those of us who got a late start.

 

[sonoramic]

Good post. I was there (Just my 3rd year, beginning in 2013) and came away with two impressions:

1) Several speakers' stories, which became the theme of the rally, was the importance of passing along 2A values to the next generation. Good and valuable, but why then and there?

2) We could better exploit an opportunity, both legislatively and in light of O'Malley's national political demise, to push back against FSA2013 and a large part of the impetus behind it: propelling O'Malley into national prominence. FSA2013 flew like a lead balloon on the national stage, and we haven't run with that. Granted, O'Malley dropped out of the race the night before the rally, but it wasn't unexpected. We could and should totally rub Miller's, Busch's, Dumais, Vallario's, and all the rest of their noses in the folly of their acts.

Also, given last year's success in obtaining repeal of the ballistic fingerprinting, we had some legislative momentum that wasn't followed up on this year. Why aren't we pushing e.g. to eliminate ALL fees associated with the HQL? There are 10-20 little steps that we could have pushed for.

I'll go again next year; movements take time to develop and get coordinated. Those who have done this for years are appreciated for their time, devotion, and efforts. We all owe it to our country -- and the generations to come -- to participate and push back against tyranny. Even those of us who got a late start.

Great post, and couldn't agree more. With the momentum there, and the demise of Owe'Mally, along with now having a Republican governor, there is no time better. Now is the time to "turn up the heat" and get involved. Lets not squander this opportunity. Yeah, I know over the years many of our efforts have seemed futile, but at least now, with all that is in place, it appears we have a better chance to get stuff done.

Keep up the good fight, and it was good seeing you all at the Rally yesterday.

 

[EL1227]

The whole "fight dirty" thing just can't work. People don't have the clout to follow through on threats. Be polite. Does that mean you can't voice your opinion? Nope. What are you going to do, swear and yell? Their house, their rules. Even our "friends" won't stand by you if you do that. Be realistic. The majority of those elected in Annapolis are not in our corner. THAT is what needs to change.

Change THEM, do not try to change their minds. Drive a wedge between them and their constituents. Pick an issue, any issue and dog them on it in social media. They're not invulnerable ... just on 2A issues.

 

[Norton]

Maryland Citizens Defense League

Mirror of our neighbors in Virginia

That's where it was going up until a couple of years ago and it got put aside

 

[Mr H]

Directed at no one individual...

Several have intimated this (to varying degrees), but here it is (IMO)...

You want to change anything about how MSI does its work, quit bitching here, and take the time to et more involved with the operation of the organization. I'm pretty sure the same would go for any of the partner organizations.

Constructive criticism is fine. We've done very well with it. But no one is going to respond well to the sniping and cat-calling that does no one any good. This is the sort of infighting that destroys good works.

Also... MDS<>MSI

You know so much? Do it yourself. Just don't come crying when you're having difficulties (re)building the relationships that make these sorts of things work.

 

[BeoBill]

OK, for those supporting the Alinsky approach, I present Kindred Spirits who are lampooning MDA:

https://www.facebook.com/Moms-Against-Cars-1907474342724475/

And...

https://www.facebook.com/momsagainsteverything/