30 super carry

[smokey]

https://www.federalpremium.com/30supercarry.html

Looks like a new cartridge. The gist is it's a .30 cal straightwall cartridge throwing a 100 gr projectile at 1250 fps. By shrinking the diameter, it bumps magazine capacity up a couple rounds without sacrificing much terminal performance. With an hst it gets 15.5" penetration @ .530" expansion... so slightly smaller than 9mm, but nothing that would make a real world difference.

it looks like Speer, Remington and others will also be loading for it in the 115 grain range.

Federal partnered with sig and nighthawk to get a shield plus, shield ez, and nighthawk grp ready to roll out with the cartridge. They're also offering fmj practice ammo with the defensive stuff.

It seems like an interesting concept, especially out of the sig 365/shield plus sized guns. This should allow manufacturers to either stick with that form factor and get an extra 2-3 shots in a mag OR shave width off of a new design without sacrificing capacity.


So whatcha think?

 

[Pale Ryder]

Sounds similar to the 7.62x25 Tokarev, and 30 Mauser.

 

[Biggfoot44]

A semiauto clone of downloaded .327 ( or .32 Mag +P if you prefer ) .

 

[Brickman301]

Interesting. Like others have said, sounds like 7.62x25, or 327 mag.
I’ve always been a fan of the 7.62x25. I’ve wondered for years why it wasn’t made in a modern handgun.

 

[steves1911]

A 43x with 17 rnd mags would be neat.

 

[alucard0822]

from a couple weeks ago:

Can't remember if it was Sig or HK messing around with something like that. .312 cal, 20mm, slight tapered case, pushes a 100gr about 1200fps, basically 9mm ballistics, but less recoil and 2-4 rounds more capacity in pistols

I know a few manufacturers that have messed around with this concept, and it is a great one that makes the best use of modern bullet tech. UNLIKE 30 cal luger/mauser/tokarev that have a fat 9mm width case and necked down to a small/light 30cal bullet at high velocity, this is a straight or slightly tapered 30cal case built around really heavy for caliber bullets at 9mm OAL. Modern expanding bullets are great at turning energy into expansion, and manufacturers are good at dialing in the perfect amount of expansion/penetration. A smaller diameter, heavy-for-caliber handgun bullet offers a ton of advantages, more efficient in short barrels, better SD/BC for better range and penetration, and potentially lighter recoil with less mass/spring pressure required to tune slide velocity. This is what kinda killed 40S&W, where 9mm can basically get close enough in performance that the greater capacity, softer recoil, and slimmer grip aren't worth the tradeoff for a very small increase in power. The "fast 30cal auto" design takes that a step further. A boutique fullsize single stack 1911 is probably the worst platform to show it off, but as a small concealable doublestack like the P365 or Hellcat it is ideal.

In addition to a couple more rounds of capacity, it also allows a slimmer stack, which can allow for a slimmer grip. Normally that would be an issue as manufacturers probably will just rechamber 9mm designs, and will be limited with spacers and ridges in 9mm mags negating the ability to make slimmer doublestacks. Hopefully if the round gets traction, and a couple manufacturers start designing pistols around it. Stuff like tiny LCP pocket guns, but with an extra round and double the power, or a slim GLOCK 43X that can hold 20 rounds, as the best attribute is the ability to fit in a slim doublestack mag built around it. Sig should be all over this caliber as their modular grip design and easy caliber conversions could give all the benefits of the caliber with the security of swapping back to a 9mm grip frame and slide if it doesn't take off. There is also the ability to make a ridiculously awesome PCC, an AR9 platform with reasonably sized 40+rd mags, light recoil, and the ability to be really quiet with a smaller bore and efficient 30cal rifle suppressors.

 

[ToBeFree]

Interesting. Like others have said, sounds like 7.62x25, or 327 mag.
I’ve always been a fan of the 7.62x25. I’ve wondered for years why it wasn’t made in a modern handgun.

Here ya go

Ruger 57

20 + 1 rounds = light em up.

 

[sgt23preston]

My only thought is why, why, why..?

9mm's are proven, reasonably priced & readily available everywhere...

+2 rounds, really..?

Practice shooting & learn to hit your target...

Where can you buy 30 super carry if needed in a hurry..?

 

[erwos]

The capacity vs power trade-off here isn't worth it in my opinion, especially when you add in logistics and being completely ineligible for competition usage. You notice how Federal is comparing it to 124gr HSTs at 1150fps? That's because the comparison looks substantially worse when you drop it to 115gr +P running at 1250, which delivers a lot more energy on target. This also assumes that real-world handguns will get the numbers they're claiming, which I would argue is still an unknown. 10mm got boned when the factory ammo was coming in way under what it could have.

I'm not going to say that the caliber vs capacity trade-off isn't worth the analysis, but you could just as well ask why they didn't drop it all the way down to .25 caliber or something to really amp up capacity. If we've made the decision that energy (vs hole size) is king, just commit to that.

 

[DutchV]

Interesting. Like others have said, sounds like 7.62x25, or 327 mag.
I’ve always been a fan of the 7.62x25. I’ve wondered for years why it wasn’t made in a modern handgun.

Manufacturers don't want to deal with supporting guns that will be run mostly on communist-made surplus ammo. Similar to why we don't see many bolt actions in 7.62x39. It's not worth the trouble for the number of guns they'd sell.

 

[erwos]

If you guys wanted a hot-rodded 9mm, you should have gone with 22TCM9R.

 

[Biggfoot44]

Answer #1 - I am outspoken in liking hot .32's , and could list their virtues . There's a reason why .32-20 accounted for about 30% of .38 spl identified DA Revolvers pre WWII .

Answer #2 - Look at the rousing commercial success of .32 Mag and .327 Federal ( Not quite sarcasm ) . They are good cartridges , and *should * be much more popular . ( So should have .32 NAA for that matter)

But alas , their virtues are appreciated by a niche audience , and their well established competition's perceived advantages are obvious and intuitive . Bigger usually IS better , when smaller is better , it needs to be unique in an obvious way .

Just like .327 Federal evokes the question in average buyers to the effect of " So what does it do very much better than .38 Spl in similar sized guns that are very common , and already work reasonably well ? " .

Other than HQL issues , I could see myself enjoying one of these . But trying to convince average person of why to get one instead of using std pressure 9x19 in a boatload of established proven pistols of various sizes is a tough sell . Most notably the plethora of recent higher capacity subcompact 9mm are filling this niche.

My prediction is that at best has the potential to become as successful as the .357Sig .

 

[smokey]

My only thought is why, why, why..?

9mm's are proven, reasonably priced & readily available everywhere...

+2 rounds, really..?

Practice shooting & learn to hit your target...

Where can you buy 30 super carry if needed in a hurry..?

Why go with 9mm instead of .45? All of your arguments apply to that choice as well except for the availability argument which is a good one in my mind. If this punches a roughly .5" hole 15" deep, it's similar enough to 9mm that there isn't likely to be a real world difference in outcome. Penetration through bone and hard things should be similar, as sectional density should be higher in the heavy .30 cal bullets(especially the 115 gr options). It's similar to how 6.5 grendel in a rifle trucks deep due to the length of the bullet relative to diameter.

+2 seems to be out of a conventional 10 round 9mm mag. In a full size, you may see 4-5 extra rounds. 20 shots out of a g19 seems pretty cool to me. The "practice shooting" argument is odd, as shot placement is much more important than the round fired(given a 12" penetration). 12 shots of .530" x 15.5" wound channel to center chest is mo'bettah at making someone leak than 10 shots of .571"x 14.5" wound channel.

A lot of the thought behind this new offering seems great. Again, I think it will shine in the 365/shieldplus kinds of guns.

 

[OldBay]

+2 rounds, really..?

Practice shooting & learn to hit your target...

100%. The average gunfight includes 3 rounds fired over 3 seconds from a distance of 3 yards.

 

[Biggfoot44]

The 3 rounds thing is a bit of statistical manipulation , but indeed there is a point of decreasing marginal benefit for additional rounds in the gun .

7rd vs 5rd , probably meaningful . 14rd vs 12rd , a minor factor .

I'm not opposed to the concept, I like hot .32's . ( Presuming that real world results are in line with initial projections ) it should be a viable option . But to make a sales pitch of why someone should replace a compact 9mm with a .30 Super of similar size, weight, and recoil would be a tough sell .

I'd like to have a .30 Super in full size to take advantage of flat trajectory for field shooting , as a modern version of semi warm handloaded .32-20 .

 

[Boats]

My only thought is why, why, why..?

9mm's are proven, reasonably priced & readily available everywhere...

+2 rounds, really..?

Practice shooting & learn to hit your target...

Where can you buy 30 super carry if needed in a hurry..?

Agree.

 

[wabbit]

Answer #1 - I am outspoken in liking hot .32's , and could list their virtues . There's a reason why .32-20 accounted for about 30% of .38 spl identified DA Revolvers pre WWII .

Answer #2 - Look at the rousing commercial success of .32 Mag and .327 Federal ( Not quite sarcasm ) . They are good cartridges , and *should * be much more popular . ( So should have .32 NAA for that matter)

But alas , their virtues are appreciated by a niche audience , and their well established competition's perceived advantages are obvious and intuitive . Bigger usually IS better , when smaller is better , it needs to be unique in an obvious way .

Just like .327 Federal evokes the question in average buyers to the effect of " So what does it do very much better than .38 Spl in similar sized guns that are very common , and already work reasonably well ? " .

Other than HQL issues , I could see myself enjoying one of these . But trying to convince average person of why to get one instead of using std pressure 9x19 in a boatload of established proven pistols of various sizes is a tough sell . Most notably the plethora of recent higher capacity subcompact 9mm are filling this niche.

My prediction is that at best has the potential to become as successful as the .357Sig .

That's a great endorsement .

 

[Uncle Duke]

Innovation in firearm and ammunition design is a good thing. That said, I can't in this instance think of one truly compelling reason why I'd want to purchase one of these.

 

[Magnumite]

Why go with 9mm instead of .45? All of your arguments apply to that choice as well except for the availability argument which is a good one in my mind. If this punches a roughly .5" hole 15" deep, it's similar enough to 9mm that there isn't likely to be a real world difference in outcome. Penetration through bone and hard things should be similar, as sectional density should be higher in the heavy .30 cal bullets(especially the 115 gr options). It's similar to how 6.5 grendel in a rifle trucks deep due to the length of the bullet relative to diameter.

+2 seems to be out of a conventional 10 round 9mm mag. In a full size, you may see 4-5 extra rounds. 20 shots out of a g19 seems pretty cool to me. The "practice shooting" argument is odd, as shot placement is much more important than the round fired(given a 12" penetration). 12 shots of .530" x 15.5" wound channel to center chest is mo'bettah at making someone leak than 10 shots of .571"x 14.5" wound channel.

A lot of the thought behind this new offering seems great. Again, I think it will shine in the 365/shieldplus kinds of guns.

Doing simple math, and I know wound ballistics is not simple math, the .571” x 14.5” hole will leak more blood than the longer .531” x 15.5” hole. This could be interpreted as the 2 extra rounds are needed to neutralize or be an advantage (I agree, not likely). Still, 10 rounds of each demonstrates greater wounding potential for the 9mm.

With these ballistics it is assumed at those depths of penetration may exit the target, yielding even greater wounding for the 9mm. Again I agree exiting the torso likely won’t occur because of other factors involved.

Power factor for the new .312” is 125. For the typical SD 9mm loading in 115 gr and 124 grain bullet weights is 138 - 146. Momentum goes to 9mm.

The 100 grain .312” bullet is heavy for caliber. Typically, those bullets are 71 grain projectiles in 32 ACP and 85 grain for 7.62x25 (which has a larger case capacity). The standard for caliber weight for 9mm is 124 at 1175 to 1250 fps and many SD loads are in this bullet weight.

Section densities for both is .146 for the new 30 and .141 for the 124 grain 9mm. Very similar SD’s so similar penetration.

I see the only advantage to the new round is capacity. Nothing wrong with that. But I wouldn't be trading a good CCW 9mm for it.

 

[Biggfoot44]

And 98gr is normal for .32 S&W L . 100 - 115gr is common for .32-20 , 110 for .30 Carbine ( yes , Revolvers also) .