.308 Ammo

[P-12 Norm]

Just purchased a NOS Remington 700 SPS 20" Barrel. While I am outfitting it for longer range shooting, I am curious about ammo in the Remington 700. I just learned that the .308 ammo is actually a bit more pressure than the 7.62 NATO ammo, so a little flatter shooting, I am not a reloader, so am wondering, what is the (perceived) sweet spot for the bullet grain size, using stock match-grade ammo?
(Ready with popcorn for the show...)

 

[gwchem]

168 or 175grn SMKs.

Federal Gold Medal Match if you're not rolling your own.

 

[Bountied]

I have had very good luck with the Hornady 168gr ELD-X factory ammo and bullets.

 

[bibitor]

If you want to shoot past 600 yards go with the Federal GMM 175. The 168's are great too, but destabilize at longer range. Many people like the Berger 185 as well, but I don't have any personal experience with it.

Out of a 20" barrel, I'm getting 2,500 fps with the Federal GMM 175, with an additional 35 fps. suppressed.

 

[Bountied]

If you want to shoot past 600 yards go with the Federal GMM 175. The 168's are great too, but destabilize at longer range. Many people like the Berger 185 as well, but I don't have any personal experience with it.

Out of a 20" barrel, I'm getting 2,500 fps with the Federal GMM 175, with an additional 35 fps. suppressed.

They make ELD-X 178s too. I haven't tried them though. The 168s I shot out to 1000yds and was able to hit a 12" gong once out of 20 shots, the rest were close and I recovered a few of them that hit the sand a couple feet short of the target. I ran out of elevation in my scope so I had to use the holdover and that was probably part of the issue.

 

[bibitor]

They make ELD-X 178s too. I haven't tried them though. The 168s I shot out to 1000yds and was able to hit a 12" gong once out of 20 shots, the rest were close and I recovered a few of them that hit the sand a couple feet short of the target. I ran out of elevation in my scope so I had to use the holdover and that was probably part of the issue.

Just out of curiosity, what glass are you using?

 

[trickg]

Just purchased a NOS Remington 700 SPS 20" Barrel. While I am outfitting it for longer range shooting, I am curious about ammo in the Remington 700. I just learned that the .308 ammo is actually a bit more pressure than the 7.62 NATO ammo, so a little flatter shooting, I am not a reloader, so am wondering, what is the (perceived) sweet spot for the bullet grain size, using stock match-grade ammo?
(Ready with popcorn for the show...)

The statement in bold is way too generalized. If you wind up reloading for this, you'll reload with a set of 308 dies, and then whatever pressure you wind up with will be a combination of the propellant you decide to use combined with the bullet weight you choose to use, and then "flatter shooting" is going to be determined by factors like bullet weight, velocity and ballistic coefficient.

Your best bet, IMO, if you want to get the most out of that rifle, is to learn to reload, and do some reading about what people are using at the bench for powder and bullets.

 

[boule]

I am curious about ammo in the Remington 700. I just learned that the .308 ammo is actually a bit more pressure than the 7.62 NATO ammo, so a little flatter shooting,

And you got about 50% of the truth. The difference between 308 and 7,62 is not only pressure (2000 psi) but also small differences in chamber size and cartridge dimensions. Fortunately, tolerances are large enough that this rarely matters.

The other point is - tolerances. There are tighter and larger chambers that all need to be able to fire the ammo safely. If you want to make use of the small pressure difference, you would need to load the round really hot and there would be a subset of chambers where you would end up with potentially dangerous overpressure. Thus, most sane reloaders and all companies tend to keep their loads well below the max.

To sumarize: For all intents and purposes 308 and 7,62 will have the same performance out of you rifle and more will depend on bullet weight and manufacturer.

To answer your question: so am wondering, what is the (perceived) sweet spot for the bullet grain size
What is your twist and what is your intended shooting distance?
The usual sweet spot is somewhere between 150 and 175 grain. Given the right platform, you can keep 155gr bullets stable and supersonic out to 1k yds.

 

[Ammo Jon]

Fed GM 168g has always been a big seller.

I’d recommend running 1k of 168 and 1k of 175 and see which it runs better with.

 

[E.Shell]

I have had very good luck with the Hornady 168gr ELD-X factory ammo and bullets.

I haven't used their .308 diameter bullets, but the 6.5s were great for precision and BC.

If you want to shoot past 600 yards go with the Federal GMM 175. The 168's are great too, but destabilize at longer range.

Agreed.

Many people like the Berger 185 as well, but I don't have any personal experience with it.

I've used Berger 185 and 190s in the .308 and I think that unless one can seat them longer than SAAMI and use a little more powder space, they're just a little past optimum weight. They do better on wind deflection, but not as well on trajectory. This means they are at their best on known distance ranges, like F-class, but not as good for unknown distances.

The statement in bold is way too generalized. If you wind up reloading for this, you'll reload with a set of 308 dies, and then whatever pressure you wind up with will be a combination of the propellant you decide to use combined with the bullet weight you choose to use, and then "flatter shooting" is going to be determined by factors like bullet weight, velocity and ballistic coefficient.

Your best bet, IMO, if you want to get the most out of that rifle, is to learn to reload, and do some reading about what people are using at the bench for powder and bullets.

Agreed. Like the 5.56 vs .223, the .260 vs 6.5 ManBun, the .308 vs 7.62x51 difference fades away in real world applications and no matter what, variables in rifles, brass and bullets will often fully negate any theoretical differences.

In the end, the OP's results will be limited by acceptable chamber pressures and required precision, not by headstamp.

Fed GM 168g has always been a big seller

The Sierra 168 MatchKing is a SUPERBLY precise bullet and as posted above, inside about 500-600 yards, it is hard to beat. Since most people never really shoot "long range", the 168 will serve most very well. Coupled with Federal's relatively early discovery of "OCW" and application to their "Gold Medal" line, this loading is extremely popular.

The .308/168 SMK was originally designed for triathlon competition, where ranges are limited to 300 meters. When long range shooting really took hold, shortcomings in the 168's design became apparent, with the bullet destabilizing and going completely sideways when going transonic. When driven by a .308, transonic occurs around 600 yards. Even though the 168 may remain stable at 600, by the time we get that far out, the 175s will exhibit better wind deflection figures and provide easier precision.

This 168 SMK was redesigned twice to improve long range performance, once as the 173 grain, then a final redesign to be the 175 SMK bullet used in Federal's other Gold Medal Match loading. We've shot 175s from .308s beyond 1,200 yards with excellent results, even from 16"-18" rifles.

 

[P-12 Norm]

The statement in bold is way too generalized. If you wind up reloading for this, you'll reload with a set of 308 dies, and then whatever pressure you wind up with will be a combination of the propellant you decide to use combined with the bullet weight you choose to use, and then "flatter shooting" is going to be determined by factors like bullet weight, velocity and ballistic coefficient.

Your best bet, IMO, if you want to get the most out of that rifle, is to learn to reload, and do some reading about what people are using at the bench for powder and bullets.

Right directly after the part you bolded, I say I am not a reloader. I will add, I am not about to be. Match grade ammo is prevalent enough, and modern developments in ammo have, at least for me, caused me to plan on not becoming the next Carlos Hathcock or Chris Kyle.

 

[trickg]

Right directly after the part you bolded, I say I am not a reloader. I will add, I am not about to be. Match grade ammo is prevalent enough, and modern developments in ammo have, at least for me, caused me to plan on not becoming the next Carlos Hathcock or Chris Kyle.

I saw that, but I stand by what I said - if you want the best out of that rifle, you'll have to work up your own load because every rifle is unique to what it likes. Some rifles are a little less touchy, but all will benefit with careful loading and ladder testing to glean your best accuracy.

 

[P-12 Norm]

One of the great things about this site, is the profusion of expertise that less proficient shooters like myself can draw on for info.

That you, each and every one!

 

[owldo]

Just purchased a NOS Remington 700 SPS 20" Barrel. While I am outfitting it for longer range shooting, I am curious about ammo in the Remington 700. I just learned that the .308 ammo is actually a bit more pressure than the 7.62 NATO ammo, so a little flatter shooting, I am not a reloader, so am wondering, what is the (perceived) sweet spot for the bullet grain size, using stock match-grade ammo?
(Ready with popcorn for the show...)
View attachment 404293

I have the 16" model ... like it a lot ... chambered for 308 Winchester

 

[bibitor]

...because every rifle is unique to what it likes. Some rifles are a little less touchy, but all will benefit with careful loading and ladder testing to glean your best accuracy.

There is truth to that, but not the whole truth. As @E.Shell eludes to above, Optimum Charge Weight load development can produce ammo with results that are not rifle dependent.

http://www.ocwreloading.com/

If you like listening to podcasts, Dan Newberry was on Episode 82 of Modern Day Sniper discussing this very topic. I found it very informative.

 

[Bountied]

Just out of curiosity, what glass are you using?

I was using a viper PST Gen 1 SFP 6-24X50

 

[rouchna]

My Remington 700 prefers a 168gr bullet.

 

[Bountied]

I haven't used their .308 diameter bullets, but the 6.5s were great for precision and BC.

Agreed.

I've used Berger 185 and 190s in the .308 and I think that unless one can seat them longer than SAAMI and use a little more powder space, they're just a little past optimum weight. They do better on wind deflection, but not as well on trajectory. This means they are at their best on known distance ranges, like F-class, but not as good for unknown distances.

Agreed. Like the 5.56 vs .223, the .260 vs 6.5 ManBun, the .308 vs 7.62x51 difference fades away in real world applications and no matter what, variables in rifles, brass and bullets will often fully negate any theoretical differences.

In the end, the OP's results will be limited by acceptable chamber pressures and required precision, not by headstamp.

The Sierra 168 MatchKing is a SUPERBLY precise bullet and as posted above, inside about 500-600 yards, it is hard to beat. Since most people never really shoot "long range", the 168 will serve most very well. Coupled with Federal's relatively early discovery of "OCW" and application to their "Gold Medal" line, this loading is extremely popular.

The .308/168 SMK was originally designed for triathlon competition, where ranges are limited to 300 meters. When long range shooting really took hold, shortcomings in the 168's design became apparent, with the bullet destabilizing and going completely sideways when going transonic. When driven by a .308, transonic occurs around 600 yards. Even though the 168 may remain stable at 600, by the time we get that far out, the 175s will exhibit better wind deflection figures and provide easier precision.

This 168 SMK was redesigned twice to improve long range performance, once as the 173 grain, then a final redesign to be the 175 SMK bullet used in Federal's other Gold Medal Match loading. We've shot 175s from .308s beyond 1,200 yards with excellent results, even from 16"-18" rifles.

I use the 143gr in my 6.5 it's very accurate out to 500yds which is the furthest I shot with it. I was hitting a little 6" hanger at 500yds with ease using factory Hornady 143gr eld-x. I worked up a couple different handloads and got better results with the factory ammo over my own. Better SDs and better groups. I tried very hard to get consistency but the factory stuff was still better. I was cutting the IMR 4064 to get them to within 0.01 grains of each other, measured case length and COAL and they still weren't as good as factory.

 

[trickg]

One of the great things about this site, is the profusion of expertise that less proficient shooters like myself can draw on for info.

That you, each and every one!

I'd guess you're probably more than proficient, and it's entirely possible you'll get exceptional accuracy out of one of the commercially available match loadings for 308 with that rifle - especially if you do some mods like an aftermarket trigger and maybe a different chassis or stock.

Regarding the reloading, I'm a reloader, but mostly because my Dad was a reloader - almost everything I shoot is a reload. I gravitated towards it because I like to have the freedom to choose what I want - which bullet brand/style/weight, which powder and powder charge, what depth I seat the bullet, etc. Anecdotally, my reloads perform better than factory ammo for both consistency and accuracy, and that's why I suggested it.

Not everyone is like me though, and I can respect that.

 

[P-12 Norm]

I'd guess you're probably more than proficient, and it's entirely possible you'll get exceptional accuracy out of one of the commercially available match loadings for 308 with that rifle - especially if you do some mods like an aftermarket trigger and maybe a different chassis or stock.

Regarding the reloading, I'm a reloader, but mostly because my Dad was a reloader - almost everything I shoot is a reload. I gravitated towards it because I like to have the freedom to choose what I want - which bullet brand/style/weight, which powder and powder charge, what depth I seat the bullet, etc. Anecdotally, my reloads perform better than factory ammo for both consistency and accuracy, and that's why I suggested it.

Not everyone is like me though, and I can respect that.

I Know it takes a level of dedication to consistency to reload in a manner that give results exceeding today's factory loads, one that has be almost to an OCD level. I don't have that, so I didn't get into reloading. I have great respect for those who do. I wish I had that mind-set. I even looked into it. But decided against even starting. A man's got to know his limitations.