55 gr vs. 6n gr

[kingshawaiian]

Hello everyone,
I am new to the site. I have heard a few opinions on what is better to shoot out of 1x9 twist HBAR. First I heard 55 gr was great for it, then I heard 62 gr was more accurate. Not sure what to think. I have shot both grains through my AR and seen slight changes within groupings, but I want to get yalls take on it. Much appreciated in advanced. God Bless.

 

[bkuether]

Hi,

Take a few moments and introduce yourself in the introductions section.

In case you cannot find it, it is located here:

https://www.mdshooters.com/forumdisplay.php?f=119

 

[Mark75H]

Hello everyone,
I am new to the site. I have heard a few opinions on what is better to shoot out of 1x9 twist HBAR. First I heard 55 gr was great for it, then I heard 62 gr was more accurate. Not sure what to think. I have shot both grains through my AR and seen slight changes within groupings, but I want to get yalls take on it. Much appreciated in advanced. God Bless.

More to it than just weight. Something like a long hollow point boat tail (HPBT) is going to be more accurate than a short std flat backed bullet with less regard for weight.

Going farther ... each barrel, even the same style and size, from the same maker, has the potential to perform better or worse with a different round based on bullet shape, weight, length, powder load and burn characteristics.

 

[Furious George]

My 1X9 barreled AR's will stabilize and shoot anything up to and including 77gr match bullets very well.

Bullet quality is FAR more important than weight.

If you are shooting FMJ's (M193 55 gr or SS109 62 gr) the answer to your question is "neither." Both tend to fall short in the accuracy department. Most SP and HP hunting bullets will out perform the FMJ's and match bullets truly leave them in the dust.

Real steel core SS109 will not achieve top accuracy because of core shift and concentricity issues. They are not made for match or benchrest shooting.

I use 55 gr. M193 type ammo for plinking, 3-gun and other low demand applications as a way of generating brass to reload with high quality match bullets for high power rifle competition.

 

[mopar92]

We'll compare apples to apples.
M193 vs. M855 mil spec ammos.
M193 will be more consistent as far as accuracy because if bullet construction. It's simply a FMJ lead coated in a copper jacket. M855 is notorious for inaccuracy because it has a steel penetrator tip that often isn't formed concentric and even introducing projectile instability. The spec for M855 can be 7 MOA before its rejected.

 

[steves1911]

The only 1 in 9 barell I have shoots best with 69gr nosler hpbt. Like mark75h said quality bullets will always outperform bulk fmj. I have also had very good luck with 60gr vmax bullets. I have a rifle that shoots right around half moa with my handloads but with 62gr green tip it will only shoot 2moa.

 

[Biggfoot44]

The really short answer - Shoot it in Your rifle and see.

We could easily chew the fat over the theoretic and laws of physics aspect until the cold beverages run out. But individual guns can do what they want. Shoot quality ammo of the various weights. See both which shoots smallest groups, and more importantly, which weights ( plural) shoot well enough for your requirements actual and perceived.

 

[peacemaker]

Weight

Quality of the projectile is far more important than weight.

 

[outrider58]

All bullets of like weight are not created equal. With a 1:9, you'll probably do well to stay below 70gn ammo. Other than that, find out what your rifle likes and buy lots of it.

 

[kingshawaiian]

55 gr vs 62 gr

Thanks all,
I just bought some IMI (Isreali Military Industry). Very clean and never reloaded. I bought a bunch of 62 gr FMJ green tip. Don't want to shoot the shit out of it cause it's expensive as hell.
I also heard a rumor that green tip means armor piercing...? Any truth to this?

 

[outrider58]

Thanks all,
I just bought some IMI (Isreali Military Industry). Very clean and never reloaded. I bought a bunch of 62 gr FMJ green tip. Don't want to shoot the shit out of it cause it's expensive as hell.
I also heard a rumor that green tip means armor piercing...? Any truth to this?

It has a steel penetrating tip under the copper jacket. Don't shoot steel targets with it.
Time to do lots of reading on this. computers are great for this. Just be advised, 3% of what you read is bullsh!t.

 

[kingshawaiian]

Did some research. Get a lot of BS and mixed reviews. I don't plan to shoot steel with it, (don't want to mess up the range's steel plates), it's crap hits the fan kinda thing. I shoot American Eagle 62 gr for steel and paper at the range.

 

[F***meI'mmovingtoMD]

green tip cuts right through empty propane tanks... those little things are nasty. don't have a great rep on human targets, however that's probably more internet lore than anything

 

[molonlabe]

For match or I use 69 gr. BTHP. Usually Sierra.

 

[lazarus]

green tip cuts right through empty propane tanks... those little things are nasty. don't have a great rep on human targets, however that's probably more internet lore than anything

I've been doing tons of research. First IMI m855 isn't normally all that expensive and right now Cabela's has it on sale. That plus $10 off and free shipping on purchases of $99 or more I picked up 5 boxes for basically 35 cents a round shipped along with some PPU m193 and a couple of boxes of other stuff. Also more SHTF for me than plinking, but still cheap.

As for everything I have been able to find reading tons of stuff and watching all the YouTube videos, it looks like a point blank range the extra velocity of m193 is going to be more effective against HARD armor. Things like AR500 plate and ceramic. But there is a TINY selection of things that m193 will penetrate that m855 won't. Really hard stuff, like AR680 and stuff will shatter the tip for M855 (which varies from AR350-400 hardness steel tip according to specs for m855). The bit I can find, things like AR500 are not quite ridgid enough to shatter m855, so it behaves as well or a little better than m193 against it.

For soft targets like regular hot rolled steel, m855 generally penetrates SLIGHTLY better.

Against hard barriers like auto glass, m193 is slightly better because the round will penetrate and deform creating a big wound channel. M855 tends to just cut through and create a deeper, not as wide wound channel.

Against unarmored people (okay, ballistics gel) it tends to not use as easily nor fragment as much compared to m193.

This is all at relatively short range. Say 100yds and under for a 16" barrel and 150yds and under for a 20" barrel.

Beyond that range m855 is far superior for penetration against any target than m193.

M855 is also better against masonry at any distance. It might take 3 or 4 rounds of m193 in a tight grouping to punch through a cinderblock wall, m855 takes 2 or sometimes 3 rounds. Since this all has to be a tight grouping if something is behind one that you are trying to give lead poisoning, m855 is a much better choice.

Personally I've got 120rnds of federal xm855 and 120rnds (once the rest shows up, I've got 20rnds right now) of IMI m855. I want to shoot some groups of both in my AR-15 once it is done being built in a few day for accuracy. What ever shoots the best I'll stock up some more, but I only plan on maybe "stockpiling" 300-400rnds total ever. Cause it isn't quite as cheap as m193 and its derivatives, which I'd like to get to 2000-3000rnds some day. Those are both maybe 2-3 year plans. Once my Cabela's order arrives I'll have about 500rnds of mixed .223 and 5.56 for target, SHTF and hunting. Which I feel like is enough for a micro stockpile as well as seeing what shoots well in my AR-15 and then concentrating on that stuff (I've got 8 different .223 and 5.56).

As a good comparison, both m193 and m855 will rip through about .33" of hot rolled steel at 25yds from a 16" barrel. At 200yds the m855 from the same gun will penetrate .25" of hot rolled steel, but the m193 will disintegrate and only dent the steel. With 1/2" steel the two rounds will not penetrate at 25yds, but the m855 will penetrate fractionally further, with a fractionally smaller crater diameter.

 

[F***meI'mmovingtoMD]

Hello everyone,
I am new to the site. I have heard a few opinions on what is better to shoot out of 1x9 twist HBAR. First I heard 55 gr was great for it, then I heard 62 gr was more accurate. Not sure what to think. I have shot both grains through my AR and seen slight changes within groupings, but I want to get yalls take on it. Much appreciated in advanced. God Bless.

for shooting paper and a disaster situation (god forbid) you will be well served with 55g M193 556. You can get good 193 from brands like IMI and PPU (sealed primers, nice brass, sufficiently hot rounds). M193 has excellent (but unpredictable) terminal performance. The 62g green tips are usually a bit more expensive and only fun (for me) for shooting holes in metal objects that shouldn't have holes

 

[MontaniSemperLiberi]

green tip cuts right through empty propane tanks... those little things are nasty. don't have a great rep on human targets, however that's probably more internet lore than anything

That's because of 2 reasons:

1. The round was originally designed for belt-feds.

2. It was designed for a 20" barrel. As soon as you shoot it out of a 16" or less barrel it loses the velocity necessary to function as designed.

There's a reason that various groups fight the ATF banning 855... It's because it's a fundamental failure to understand the external and terminal ballistics that result in armor penetration.

Fight the derp.

 

[noahhh]

I'll second the comment to try a bunch of different bullets to see which work best in your particular gun - then buy a ton of them and get on with your life. My 20" 1-9" Wilson H-bar took an instant liking to cheap Hornady 55gr. SP's and CFE-223 powder to the tune of 3/4" 5 shot groups time after time at 100 yards, with more than a few going into 1/2". Could it shoot better with other bullets? Maybe, probably. Would heavier bullets be better "tactically", for big game hunting, and for really long range target shooting? Indeed. Do I care? Nope. For what I want the gun to do, it's doing it. I don't see myself engaging prairie dogs at 400 meters, shooting through propane tanks and engine blocks, or using the gun for deer past maybe 150 yards (if I use it for such at all- the 30 or so other "deer" rifles in my possession notwithstanding). In short, I view it as a relatively short range quick firing anti-personnel defense weapon, that given my lack of formal "tactical" training and general less-than-stellar physical condition (arthritis is a b*tch, for those of you too young to be acquainted with it) makes it ideal in its current state. Just my opinion as to what works for me.

I'm just pleased as punch to have found that these bulk bullets shoot so well. $80/1000 to boot is a price point I'll take any day. That makes it about the only rifle for which I don't bother casting bullets for.

 

[Uncle Duke]

I'll second the comment to try a bunch of different bullets to see which work best in your particular gun - then buy a ton of them and get on with your life. My 20" 1-9" Wilson H-bar took an instant liking to cheap Hornady 55gr. SP's and CFE-223 powder to the tune of 3/4" 5 shot groups time after time at 100 yards, with more than a few going into 1/2". Could it shoot better with other bullets? Maybe, probably. Would heavier bullets be better "tactically", for big game hunting, and for really long range target shooting? Indeed. Do I care? Nope. For what I want the gun to do, it's doing it. I don't see myself engaging prairie dogs at 400 meters, shooting through propane tanks and engine blocks, or using the gun for deer past maybe 150 yards (if I use it for such at all- the 30 or so other "deer" rifles in my possession notwithstanding). In short, I view it as a relatively short range quick firing anti-personnel defense weapon, that given my lack of formal "tactical" training and general less-than-stellar physical condition (arthritis is a b*tch, for those of you too young to be acquainted with it) makes it ideal in its current state. Just my opinion as to what works for me.

I'm just pleased as punch to have found that these bulk bullets shoot so well. $80/1000 to boot is a price point I'll take any day. That makes it about the only rifle for which I don't bother casting bullets for.

I'm a fan of that SP bullet for many of my purposes as well, as a decent and inexpensive all around bulk choice. I tend to see better accuracy with these bullets over the FMJ of a number of brands, in my small sampling of rifles.

Brownells is a great company for a lot of things, but not who I'd typically think of as a go to bullet price leader. But they do run sales on this bullet in 6000pc. bulk cases fairly often, and oftentimes with free shipping. Winds up at 7 cents apiece delivered when they do, so even a bit better than what you mention. That's an absolute steal for that bullet at that price IMHO.

 

[Pinecone]

M855 was designed to penetrate a ballistic helmet at longer range.

Unfortunately, it is a very stable round, so sometimes, when it hits the target, it drills right through, leaving a .223" hole. M193 (55 grain) and M262 (77 grain) are much less stable, so when entering the target, they "exhibit excessive yaw deviation." Which means they tumble and fragment. So better performance on soft targets.

The military is going to the M855A1, which is much improved soft target performance. This is not available to the public.