- Jul 29, 2014
- 50,163
Thinking of a 6.5 Grendel upper build for one of my rifles(AR). Then it occurred to me...subsonics for the Grendel?
...nevermind
...nevermind
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This is a joke right? Sure, it will have more ME than a worthless subsonic 223, but there is literally no point when 300blk exists. Anyone that has an exotic 6.5 Grendel already feel in the deep end of the ar15 pool and can afford a $300 PSA 300blk upper.
If you want a subsonic witb that bolt face then what you want is 9x39 or .358 Gremlin.
6.5 Grendel subsonic = 9mm = "toy".I am not doubting that people have done it, I just doubt the usefulness beyond scratching a novelty itch(which I fully understand). You will be limited to 9mm level muzzle energy and have a bunch of additional tradeoffs beyond 300blk since 6.5g is generally setup for long range shooting. You may want to deviate from the standard twist rate, and I dont think the 6.5's BC will help much beyond 100m vs 223/300 when you are limited to <=160gr bullets.
This is a joke right? Sure, it will have more ME than a worthless subsonic 223, but there is literally no point when 300blk exists. Anyone that has an exotic 6.5 Grendel already feel in the deep end of the ar15 pool and can afford a $300 PSA 300blk upper.
6.5 Grendel subsonic = 9mm = "toy".
.300 AAC subsonic = 45 ACP = HOG KILLING ROUND OF DOOM (somehow?)
I'll say that 6.5 Grendel doesn't do it as well, but I think people are being overly harsh on the concept.
My poorly-expressed point was that the energy levels we're talking about are pistol-level, not rifle-level. .300AAC has certain advantages in hunting due to bullet selection, but if you're just dumping rounds down range, you're spending a lot of money on not a lot of advantage... if you want to shoot subs on the range or in competition, buy a 9mm or 45ACP upper, you'll have far cheaper ammo. (.300AAC supers are barely even worth talking about; they're essentially equivalent to 7.62x39, which is 1940s ballistics.)Based on muzzle energy the 45 ACP actually has a higher ME than supersonic or subsonic 9mm. It should be in your load books and easily verifiable.
My poorly-expressed point was that the energy levels we're talking about are pistol-level, not rifle-level. .300AAC has certain advantages in hunting due to bullet selection, but if you're just dumping rounds down range, you're spending a lot of money on not a lot of advantage... if you want to shoot subs on the range or in competition, buy a 9mm or 45ACP upper, you'll have far cheaper ammo. (.300AAC supers are barely even worth talking about; they're essentially equivalent to 7.62x39, which is 1940s ballistics.)
So getting into a tiff about energy is a bit of a joke; none of the rounds being discussed are impressive in that regard. Now, if you want to bring 458 SOCOM into the equation, that's a caliber that can do rifle-level damage across the board, albeit at the cost of money and magazine capacity.
Given that you can buy a BCA 458 SOCOM upper for like $300, and it will perform acceptably by most accounts, it's just not worth it to screw around with half-measures. This theoretical situation where you're gonna mixing mag of subs into your rifle between mags of supers just makes no real-world sense. I say all of this as a guy who LOVES 6.5G, and think it's the best thing since sliced bread.The 6.5 is a “legs” round for an AR 15, it never crossed my mind to cut them out from under it.
Given that you can buy a BCA 458 SOCOM upper for like $300, and it will perform acceptably by most accounts, it's just not worth it to screw around with half-measures. This theoretical situation where you're gonna mixing mag of subs into your rifle between mags of supers just makes no real-world sense. I say all of this as a guy who LOVES 6.5G, and think it's the best thing since sliced bread.
I feel like you meant to insert a link? I'm not going to deny that MDS has problems, but I think a reasonable argument about real-world usage of certain ideas has merit.This is what Outrider58 was looking into.
Per the link. Oh, BTW he is a good friend and very knowledgeable. A look at big post count ‘ splains a lot. I am starting to see this forum become more like ar15 site where people are rediculed all the time. Sad state, indeed.
I think there's a use case for something like that with a bolt gun - I run both a AR-6.5G and a Ruger American in 6.5G, so subsonic 6.5G is a topic of interest to me. Problem is, your zero's gonna be way, way off compared to full-fat 6.5G. That's kind of the problem - it's a theoretically interesting idea that seems to fail when confronted with any kind of real world use, or such was my own discovery.... I put a YHM 308 can on my 16" midlength Grendel. On a whim, I loaded up some 120gr Core Lokt bullets with 10 grains of H335. The bullets were subsonic and the bolt locked back! This was with no bullets in the mag. I fired a couple more with 5 in the mag and the carrier would eject the shell, but wouldn't cycle with the upward pressure of the loaded mag. I think that with a little load development I can get it to cycle with 5 rounds in the mag.....
This is what Outrider58 was looking into.
Per the link. Oh, BTW he is a good friend and very knowledgeable. A look at big post count ‘ splains a lot. I am starting to see this forum become more like ar15 site where people are rediculed all the time. Sad state, indeed.
... I put a YHM 308 can on my 16" midlength Grendel. On a whim, I loaded up some 120gr Core Lokt bullets with 10 grains of H335. The bullets were subsonic and the bolt locked back! This was with no bullets in the mag. I fired a couple more with 5 in the mag and the carrier would eject the shell, but wouldn't cycle with the upward pressure of the loaded mag. I think that with a little load development I can get it to cycle with 5 rounds in the mag.....
.I think there's a use case for something like that with a bolt gun - I run both a AR-6.5G and a Ruger American in 6.5G, so subsonic 6.5G is a topic of interest to me. Problem is, your zero's gonna be way, way off compared to full-fat 6.5G. That's kind of the problem - it's a theoretically interesting idea that seems to fail when confronted with any kind of real world use, or such was my own discovery.
458 SOCOM is great for suppressed subsonic performace....$2 per factory loaded blade adds up real quick.
This is the reloading forum though .