7.62x25mm handguns.

[mdsuave13]

i was reading an article a few days ago about mother russia and them considering going back to the good old 7.62x25 round for their hand/sub guns.

They made mention of modern uses of ballistics vests and other body armor that troops wear and that the good old tok rounds were great for that. A round stopped is a round that is not effective!

To me it sounds like a good idea, honestly i don't see it being a problem, most 9mm guns could be redone to accept the longer round, as a cz can be modded to accept a 9mm...

Does anyone know if there are more modern firearms then the cz or tok that use this round? Who do you think will be the first manufacturer to give this a shot?

anyone thinking what i'm thinking??? springfield xdm 7.62x25 with a 19+1 capacity????

the only downside to this is i see it not going on the MD roster. I have a feeling that since the tok round is so effective against body armor, they would say its not a reasonable weapon for the average person to own... even if they haven't banned the old school weapons that still work great and use it.

 

[alucard0822]

i was reading an article a few days ago about mother russia and them considering going back to the good old 7.62x25 round for their hand/sub guns.

They made mention of modern uses of ballistics vests and other body armor that troops wear and that the good old tok rounds were great for that. A round stopped is a round that is not effective!

To me it sounds like a good idea, honestly i don't see it being a problem, most 9mm guns could be redone to accept the longer round, as a cz can be modded to accept a 9mm...

Does anyone know if there are more modern firearms then the cz or tok that use this round? Who do you think will be the first manufacturer to give this a shot?

anyone thinking what i'm thinking??? springfield xdm 7.62x25 with a 19+1 capacity????

the only downside to this is i see it not going on the MD roster. I have a feeling that since the tok round is so effective against body armor, they would say its not a reasonable weapon for the average person to own... even if they haven't banned the old school weapons that still work great and use it.

The problem is OAL of the round, as it has always been, at 1.3", it is too long to fit in even 10mm/45acp mag wells, and definetely too long to fit in 9mm/40s&w frames, the better way to go is wildcat a 40S&W case to accept a 7.62 cal bullet, shorter length, greater capacity, and will fit in most any 9mm/40S&W frame with mostly just a barrel change. Of course then, the cheap mil-surp ammo source is rendered kinda moot.

 

[drott]

The 357sig is a modern (western) high velocity, "bottleneck" cartridge that is similar to 7.62x25; not only in its design but ballistically as well. IIRC the 357sig doesn't quite have the ass of the 7.62x25, but it is comparable.

 

[novus collectus]

The problem is OAL of the round, as it has always been, at 1.3", it is too long to fit in even 10mm/45acp mag wells, and definetely too long to fit in 9mm/40s&w frames, the better way to go is wildcat a 40S&W case to accept a 7.62 cal bullet, shorter length, greater capacity, and will fit in most any 9mm/40S&W frame with mostly just a barrel change. Of course then, the cheap mil-surp ammo source is rendered kinda moot.

OTs-27 "Berdysh" (pole-axe; index also sometimes incorrectly spelled as OC-27), also known as the PSA (pistolet Stechkina-Avraamova - Stechkin & Avraamov pistol) has been developed for "Grach" trials, with the goal being the replacement for the venerable Makarov PM as a standard issue sidearm for Russian army. According to the initial specifications, the OTs-27 was produced as a multicaliber pistol, capable of firing the 7.62x25 TT, 9x18 PM and 9x19 Para ammunition with the swap of the barrel, return spring and the magazine. Due to various reasons Ots-27 has been dropped from the Grach trials, but the development continued. Pistol first appeared circa 1994, originally developed by the TSKIB SOO (central design bureau for sporting and hunting arms, Tula, Russia); as the TSKIB SOO was merged with famous KBP design bureau, the latter continued the development and limited production of the pistol. At the present time OTs-27 is offered only in two calibers, 9x18 PM and 9x19 Para, and, apparently, is in limited use with some Russian police units.

http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg138-e.htm

18 round magazine.

 

[alucard0822]

http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg138-e.htm

18 round magazine.

There was also a Croatian pistol (Zastava PHP I think ) That had a prototype double stack in 7.62X25, a weird looking pistol that was kinda half p-38 half beretta 92, ended up shortening the frame and staying with 9X19 just like the OT-27 because it made the frame and grip too long. Not saying it can't be done, just not in a common 9mm or 45acp length frame, 7.62X25 would require a dedicated frame for the caliber, or some custom work to streach an existing frame and slide, and to build custom mags for it, or to basically spend a lot of money to make a custom set up in the few pistols that have a frame long enough to take it, like the LAR grizzly, or desert eagle, although both are huge, and single stack, so not really much of an improvement over a CZ52 or TT-33.

 

[novus collectus]

I still like my idea of making an existing CZ52 a double stack by simply modifying the magazine and removing one grip panel.

Not sure if yuou saw my idea last time I posted it, but if you take the grips off a CZ52 you will see the mag well is completely open on the left side and so if you made a magazine with a narrow spot where it inserts into the top part of the magwell, taper it out on the left side and make the outside of the mag the outside of the grip you can increase capacity while still keeping a balanced thickness on both sides.

 

[Bigdtc]

I still like my idea of making an existing CZ52 a double stack by simply modifying the magazine and removing one grip panel.

Not sure if yuou saw my idea last time I posted it, but if you take the grips off a CZ52 you will see the mag well is completely open on the left side and so if you made a magazine with a narrow spot where it inserts into the top part of the magwell, taper it out on the left side and make the outside of the mag the outside of the grip you can increase capacity while still keeping a balanced thickness on both sides.

I wonder if a smith could look at this. I would get another CZ for the cause, if it were possible....Paging Smores......

 

[novus collectus]

I wonder if a smith could look at this. I would get another CZ for the cause, if it were possible....Paging Smores......

My idea would not alter the frame one bit, so it would be all changes to the magazine and the grips.
However, I guess a notch could be cut into the frame so that a side mag release is used instead of the bottom catch, so I guess an extended mag could also be used as well as being double stacked.

 

[mdsuave13]

The 357sig is a modern (western) high velocity, "bottleneck" cartridge that is similar to 7.62x25; not only in its design but ballistically as well. IIRC the 357sig doesn't quite have the ass of the 7.62x25, but it is comparable.

id call the fn5.7 round closer to the 7.62 then the .357 sig.... but the problem is:both are super pricey to shoot

i'd love to see russia introduce a new pistola that supports the 7.62 round with a double stack mag....


I haven't sat and stared at the cz, but in theorey i guess could work with some sort of grip change, although i have no idea how to manufacture a mag, even if i did, i feel like it may feed horribly... with it feeding off to one side and all....

eh, dreamers gotta dream...

 

[jhartmac]

ok question about the new 5.7x28mm round is it true that it does not have superior ballistics (through armor) unless the barrel is a min of 10-12"?