81% Lowers

[Skins_Brew]

So, I have been doing some thinking about 10/1 and the AWB.

I am basically good on ARs, but that is, I am satisified with what I have as of 7/30. In a year, "The bug" might bite again and I will want to build.

So, an 80% lower is technically not a firearm. You can buy them by the case with no paperwork. Once it becomes over 80%, it is now a firearm.

What to prevent me from buying 5 80% lowers, drilling one hole and making them 81% firearms? If I do this before 10/1, I will have a decent amount of lowers for future use.

Main reason is that I, like a lot of others, do not have the funds to go out and buy (or build) every single AR config I could ever want in the next three months. Making a bunch of 81% firearms would be doable though.

So, is this legit?

 

[jrumann59]

The state has no way of knowing how many 80% lowers you own and they have to prove you manufactured after 10/1.

 

[IMBLITZVT]

First thing to know is there is no such thing as an 80% rule. That number does not exist in ATF regulations. So the 81% does not mean anything else.

Now to the basic point. If you take a chuck of material not finished enough to be considered a firearm, do just enough work to get it to the point where the ATF considers it a firearm, then yes I think your idea works. Then you could in theory send it off to get the rest of the work done for you too???

 

[Sportstud4891]

The state has no way of knowing how many 80% lowers you own and they have to prove you manufactured after 10/1.

This comment made me reread the bill and I think I may have missed it (in the monstrosity that is SB281) but can someone point out to me where it says manufacture is illegal? Or is it inferred through some legal jargon?

 

[sygata]

BTW, does the bill has anything about that difference between manufacturing and making that ATF rules have?

 

[Skins_Brew]

First thing to know is there is no such thing as an 80% rule. That number does not exist in ATF regulations. So the 81% does not mean anything else.

Now to the basic point. If you take a chuck of material not finished enough to be considered a firearm, do just enough work to get it to the point where the ATF considers it a firearm, then yes I think your idea works. Then you could in theory send it off to get the rest of the work done for you too???

so where does the 80% stuff come from?

 

[Braddbdl]

so where does the 80% stuff come from?

Supposedly it is a marketing ploy. Sounds better than "paperweight which the ATF deems not to be an actual firearm."

 

[buzzsaw]

Have you considered simply buying uppers to change configurations? I've got two lowers and am lightly considering #3, but probably not since I'm trying to get a few pistols...

That being said the main config changes are in the uppers (unless you count different stocks, or you want to include AR based pistols). Might save you a few hundred dollars to limit the number of lowers you have?

 

[IMBLITZVT]

so where does the 80% stuff come from?

Same place Class III comes from... God only knows. NFA and Title II I get but class III. Again show me where that comes from.

80% is just the name used. So long as you know its not actually a real percentage, you are ok. After all how does one determine 80% of the work? Does that include finishing? Does that mean by time or skill of labor or by weight or.... what is the 80%? You can quickly see where it does not make actual sense. ATF has standard and gray lines where these non receivers can be completed to. Sometimes they come down hard on people over it. Like Halo and their 80% 1919a4 sideplates. Cost him lost of money and still has not won...

 

[smdub]

What to prevent me from buying 5 80% lowers, drilling one hole and making them 81% firearms? If I do this before 10/1, I will have a decent amount of lowers for future use.

I follow your line of thinking and have thought about it myself. It seems fairly accepted that a typ "80% lower" w/ the FCG pocket and trigger pins NOT drilled are as far as a manufacturer can go w/o the ATF calling it a firearm. Several of them have tried to do a little more (even engraving the top where to drill out) and have been told: "nope, too much" by the ATF. So I agree that just drilling some holes would get it over the legal limit to be considered a firearm.

Now, whether you have to put an upper on it in a banned configuration is another discussion (covered many times in other threads.) Its the same as if you had a complete hbar today. If never in a banned config, legally it may never be allowed as one. But lets not argue that part (again) here.

And lets not get into doing something illegal and saying the state has to prove it. OP asked about the letter of the law not if he can get away w/ something illegal after the fact. Two different things. The latter has already been hashed to death here.

 

[vgplayer]

The question is when does that "80%" receiver become a firearm. I don't know if that is clearly defined by the ATF. I would also like to know for AK flats and blanks.

 

[Markp]

So, I have been doing some thinking about 10/1 and the AWB.

I am basically good on ARs, but that is, I am satisified with what I have as of 7/30. In a year, "The bug" might bite again and I will want to build.

So, an 80% lower is technically not a firearm. You can buy them by the case with no paperwork. Once it becomes over 80%, it is now a firearm.

What to prevent me from buying 5 80% lowers, drilling one hole and making them 81% firearms? If I do this before 10/1, I will have a decent amount of lowers for future use.

Main reason is that I, like a lot of others, do not have the funds to go out and buy (or build) every single AR config I could ever want in the next three months. Making a bunch of 81% firearms would be doable though.

So, is this legit?

Where did you get the idea that 80% is not a receiver and 81% is?

It is not a legal standard for determining the legal status of a receiver, never has been, and may never be used as a standard for all I know.

Do you know what makes a receiver, a receiver, in the eyes of the ATF?

Most people don't, hell, sometimes the ATF doesn't even know!!! In general, a receiver becomes a receiver when it can accept 2 out of the 3 following things.

1. a fire control group (trigger, hammer, sear, etc)
2. a magazine (or other opening/method to place a round in the chamber)
3. a firing chamber/barrel

That is what makes a receiver, a receiver.

 

[Skins_Brew]

Where did you get the idea that 80% is not a receiver and 81% is?

It is not a legal standard for determining the legal status of a receiver, never has been, and may never be used as a standard for all I know.

Do you know what makes a receiver, a receiver, in the eyes of the ATF?

Most people don't, hell, sometimes the ATF doesn't even know!!! In general, a receiver becomes a receiver when it can accept 2 out of the 3 following things.

1. a fire control group (trigger, hammer, sear, etc)
2. a magazine (or other opening/method to place a round in the chamber)
3. a firing chamber/barrel

That is what makes a receiver, a receiver.

an 80% lower can take a mag and be fitted to an upper (which has a barrel). Not sure it mating to an upper counts or not as having a firing chamber/barrel.

 

[huesmann]

But an 80% cannot accept a FCG.