9mm Cycling problem

[Doug S]

Hey all,
Longtime reader, first time poster.

So, I've been reloading for a while now, thru several different calibers. Usually 45 LC for my lever actions and SAA Colts for cowboy shooting. I reload some 7mm Rem Mag for my rifle, some 40 S&W for my HK, and some 9mm for my Baretta. Lately (w/the craze), I've been reloading more for friends, so I upgraded from my trusty RCBS RC to a Dillon 550.

Awesome, I can't remember why I waited so long?!?!?

Anyway, this brought me back to a problem I've had in the past, that I ignored. It's crept back up on me tho, and in a more expensive way.

When I first started reloading for the Baretta, I noticed that it didn't want to cycle on recoil. It wouldn't fully eject, stovepiped, or something along those lines. I chalked it up to a stiff spring, and just loaded a little hotter. By "hotter" I mean "not at the bottom". For example, if the load data said "4.0 to 4.8", I'd find that 4.6 or so (w/a med crimp) worked fine. I've never had this problem with any other gun I've reloaded for, including some made for friends.

Well, with the new Dillon (and hard time finding powder), I made that same mistake in a BIG way. The Baretta has had hundreds (~ 800 - 1.5k) rounds thru it, mostly with Hodgdon HP-38 in it. (I like that for the 45 LC, 40, and 9) I found a 4lb bottle of Hodgdon Universal tho, and decided to pick it up as an alternative.

That's when I made the nube mistake. I jumped on the Hodgdon site, found that it wanted 3.8 - 4.3, and worked up 400 rounds at 4.0. I figured erring in the middle would be fine, and the dang Dillon made it SO easy to make 400 (vs. the usual 40-50 I usually make to test loads). I took a few dozen to the range, and now I'm back to Baretta not cycling all the way again. I haven't had a FTF yet, but I'd say anywhere b/w 1 our of every 3-5 doesn't eject fully and cycle the slide.

Enough background, now the question: Was I right back in the day when I assumed the Baretta spring was too stiff, and I needed hotter loads?? I figured she'd been broken in enough that I'd be ok w/a mid-range load, but not so much.

I REALLY don't want to think about pulling the 350 I have left, but they're too much of a PITA for me now. Any thoughts?!? HELP!!

 

[Wreck]

Hey all,
Longtime reader, first time poster.

So, I've been reloading for a while now, thru several different calibers. Usually 45 LC for my lever actions and SAA Colts for cowboy shooting. I reload some 7mm Rem Mag for my rifle, some 40 S&W for my HK, and some 9mm for my Baretta. Lately (w/the craze), I've been reloading more for friends, so I upgraded from my trusty RCBS RC to a Dillon 550.

Awesome, I can't remember why I waited so long?!?!?

Anyway, this brought me back to a problem I've had in the past, that I ignored. It's crept back up on me tho, and in a more expensive way.

When I first started reloading for the Baretta, I noticed that it didn't want to cycle on recoil. It wouldn't fully eject, stovepiped, or something along those lines. I chalked it up to a stiff spring, and just loaded a little hotter. By "hotter" I mean "not at the bottom". For example, if the load data said "4.0 to 4.8", I'd find that 4.6 or so (w/a med crimp) worked fine. I've never had this problem with any other gun I've reloaded for, including some made for friends.

Well, with the new Dillon (and hard time finding powder), I made that same mistake in a BIG way. The Baretta has had hundreds (~ 800 - 1.5k) rounds thru it, mostly with Hodgdon HP-38 in it. (I like that for the 45 LC, 40, and 9) I found a 4lb bottle of Hodgdon Universal tho, and decided to pick it up as an alternative.

That's when I made the nube mistake. I jumped on the Hodgdon site, found that it wanted 3.8 - 4.3, and worked up 400 rounds at 4.0. I figured erring in the middle would be fine, and the dang Dillon made it SO easy to make 400 (vs. the usual 40-50 I usually make to test loads). I took a few dozen to the range, and now I'm back to Baretta not cycling all the way again. I haven't had a FTF yet, but I'd say anywhere b/w 1 our of every 3-5 doesn't eject fully and cycle the slide.

Enough background, now the question: Was I right back in the day when I assumed the Baretta spring was too stiff, and I needed hotter loads?? I figured she'd been broken in enough that I'd be ok w/a mid-range load, but not so much.

I REALLY don't want to think about pulling the 350 I have left, but they're too much of a PITA for me now. Any thoughts?!? HELP!!

First thing I would check each round and be sure each drops in the barrel freely. If they do, Then I would make up some test loads, working up .1 grain for each batch and test fire again. Before pulling bullets, I'd see if some of your friend's guns will cycle with them since you stated you already load for friends. Also be sure your gun is clean, lubed, and the slide is operating smoothly and freely. Good luck.

 

[alpine44]

As stated above, clean and lube your gun well or try whether you can put the ammo to use in another gun.

You could also try, within reasonalble limits, to seat the bullets deeper. That will increase the pressure and subsequently the recoil impulse.

 

[Pinecone]

You can also try to find a lighter recoil spring.

Brownells would be the first place I would look.

 

[John from MD]

Go to gunsprings.com and buy a lighter weight recoil spring or springs from Wolff.

This is SOP in the Bullseye game where you want the gun to move the least in recoil while still being accurate.

This also should be a lesson to you, test loads are imperative before going into production!

I am cheap so I only load three of each load when developing loads for handguns. I look for function first and then accuracy. When I feel I am close, I shoot a five round string. If it is still a good load, I then make a bunch.

Regards,

John

 

[Doug S]

Thanks for the advice gents, much appreciated.

I know, I generally make a few batches when I work up a new load. I'll start at the low end of the range, and make 25 or so of each weight, moving up .1 gr per. Again, failure to do this (since I was focused on cranking out rounds on the new Dillon) is what bit me in the a$$.

I'd considered seating them deeper, but don't know how much I trust that route.

I'm going to try out some buds' pistols too, but don't really feel like giving away the remaining 350 I made...

I'm thinking that testing a few new springs is the way to go. Gunsprings.com (tks for the heads up John) seems like a good place to check out. The site shows Factory Standard at 13 lbs for my 92 FS, and anything below that as "Reduced Power". Should I try a 12, 11, 10, 9, etc, or would dropping to 12 (or 11, or 10, or 9...) be a good first step? I guess I'm asking if anyone has the experience to know "how much of a drop" would be enough to see some results?

Thanks again for all the help thus far!

 

[Pinecone]

I would drop for 13 to 11 and see how that works. If they are almost cycling.

If that doesn't work, drop another pound or two.

 

[lx1x]

first: you are brave man to reloads for friends. hopefully all of the reloads doesn't fail.

second: I have same issue with my guns.. it would fire fine and will lock the slide back on one of the gun.. but not on the other. its depending on the load/velocity of the projectile.

i'll use my load for example. I have xdm, sig 229 and glock. I load with 124gr and titegroup powder. at 4.2gr.. it shoots great for the xdm and sig will cycle properly and will lock the slide back at last round. but if shot from the glock.. it started keyholing. so I have different load for my glock. 4.0gr of titegroup which is just under 1050+- fps. it shoots great on glock but not lock the slide back on last round for the xdm and sig. using regular bought ammo, all does fine.

my point is.. if you loading for friends.. try to match a regular store bought velocity for specific grain of bullet. so they don't have to replace their recoil spring (I tend to leave mine alone). the manufacturer put that specific lb of recoil spring for some reason. also.. if they/friends going to buy hd loads (most if not all of them are typically higher velocity/pressure). last thing I want is their guns to not properly function when their life depends on it.


my 2cents.

 

[DocAitch]

I have experienced a similar phenomenon with my Glock 34, and have to test every new load in the Glock. If it cycles the Glock, it will cycle every other 9mm I own, including a Beretta 92.
I sympathize with your plight, I have just decided that I have to pull down 300+ 45ACP because of a glitch in my loading sequence with a Lee 1000.
Good Luck with that.
DocAitch

 

[SOMDSHOOT]

first: you are brave man to reloads for friends. hopefully all of the reloads doesn't fail.

second: I have same issue with my guns.. it would fire fine and will lock the slide back on one of the gun.. but not on the other. its depending on the load/velocity of the projectile.

i'll use my load for example. I have xdm, sig 229 and glock. I load with 124gr and titegroup powder. at 4.2gr.. it shoots great for the xdm and sig will cycle properly and will lock the slide back at last round. but if shot from the glock.. it started keyholing. so I have different load for my glock. 4.0gr of titegroup which is just under 1050+- fps. it shoots great on glock but not lock the slide back on last round for the xdm and sig. using regular bought ammo, all does fine.

my point is.. if you loading for friends.. try to match a regular store bought velocity for specific grain of bullet. so they don't have to replace their recoil spring (I tend to leave mine alone). the manufacturer put that specific lb of recoil spring for some reason. also.. if they/friends going to buy hd loads (most if not all of them are typically higher velocity/pressure). last thing I want is their guns to not properly function when their life depends on it.


my 2cents.

Very good information. I recently had the same similar issue with a buddy whom I reloaded some 40 S&W for his brand new Beretta just a few weeks ago. I loaded the rounds the same I always have for 3 other 40 S&W pistols. The same issue was that he could load, chamber and fire, but, the recoil would not spit the case out and chamber the next round. I grabbed another box that I had reloaded with the same specs and bullets but with a pinch more powder making them slightly hotter than the previous batch. He fired all 50 rounds in a few short minutes without a hiccup. Notes were made on my end for future reference for his his specific gun.

 

[alpine44]

first: you are brave man to reloads for friends. hopefully all of the reloads doesn't fail.

second: I have same issue with my guns.. it would fire fine and will lock the slide back on one of the gun.. but not on the other. its depending on the load/velocity of the projectile.

i'll use my load for example. I have xdm, sig 229 and glock. I load with 124gr and titegroup powder. at 4.2gr.. it shoots great for the xdm and sig will cycle properly and will lock the slide back at last round. but if shot from the glock.. it started keyholing. so I have different load for my glock. 4.0gr of titegroup which is just under 1050+- fps. it shoots great on glock but not lock the slide back on last round for the xdm and sig. using regular bought ammo, all does fine.

my point is.. if you loading for friends.. try to match a regular store bought velocity for specific grain of bullet. so they don't have to replace their recoil spring (I tend to leave mine alone). the manufacturer put that specific lb of recoil spring for some reason. also.. if they/friends going to buy hd loads (most if not all of them are typically higher velocity/pressure). last thing I want is their guns to not properly function when their life depends on it.


my 2cents.

What bullet and overall length were you using for the 124gr/Titegroup loads? I am trying to find a possible reason why you had keyholing in your Glock. 4.2gr of Titegroup under a 124gr bullet has become one of our standard loads for local group of about 15 Glock shooters (plus a couple of SIG and M&P guys).

 

[lx1x]

What bullet and overall length were you using for the 124gr/Titegroup loads? I am trying to find a possible reason why you had keyholing in your Glock. 4.2gr of Titegroup under a 124gr bullet has become one of our standard loads for local group of about 15 Glock shooters (plus a couple of SIG and M&P guys).

rainier and/or berry's 124gr rn. cant recall exact oal from top of my head right now... but 1.15" to that nature.

i do have g34.. the other.. xdm 9mm 4.25" barrel.. and sig 226 +/- 4"?

 

[FlatsFlite]

Never overlook the limp wrist. And some firearms are more apt to FTE than others.

 

[Flipz]

What bullet and overall length were you using for the 124gr/Titegroup loads? I am trying to find a possible reason why you had keyholing in your Glock. 4.2gr of Titegroup under a 124gr bullet has become one of our standard loads for local group of about 15 Glock shooters (plus a couple of SIG and M&P guys).

This is my Titegroup load. It has cycled every gun Ive tried it in without issue. It locks the slide or bolt back religously and has never keyholed.

Precision Delta 147gr FMJ
Titegroup 3.4gr's
OAL 1.150

I have fired tons of these rounds through the following guns without issue and all have stock recoil springs:
G17
G19
G34
P226
USP9SD
M&P9
AR15 9mm 5.5" SBR

 

[Doug S]

Never overlook the limp wrist. And some firearms are more apt to FTE than others.

Agreed, I was actually "hoping" that was the problem when I started. I locked it down for a few tho, and still had the problem.

I just ordered a 9 and 11 lb spring from gunsprings.com, so I'll report back on if/how they work out for me. Took the excuse to upgrade to a steel rod while I was on their site too, so that's a plus either way.

Thanks again for all the help all!

 

[alpine44]

This is my Titegroup load. It has cycled every gun Ive tried it in without issue. It locks the slide or bolt back religously and has never keyholed.

Precision Delta 147gr FMJ
Titegroup 3.4gr's
OAL 1.150

I have fired tons of these rounds through the following guns without issue and all have stock recoil springs:
G17
G19
G34
P226
USP9SD
M&P9
AR15 9mm 5.5" SBR

Yep, another one of our favorites for the heavier 9mm pills.

You also may want to try Solo1000 for the 147gr bullets. It burns cooler and creates less smoke from the FMJs with exposed lead base. It is also impossible to throw a double charge with Solo1000.

 

[Flipz]

Yep, another one of our favorites for the heavier 9mm pills.

You also may want to try Solo1000 for the 147gr bullets. It burns cooler and creates less smoke from the FMJs with exposed lead base. It is also impossible to throw a double charge with Solo1000.

I use it as a subsonic suppressor load. But it can definitely hold its own when it comes to accuracy. Many comp shooters use this load +/- .1gr's.