AR Upper Recomendation

[ObsceneJesster]

Do we have any confirmed guidance (email, letter) on whether you can build a non-hbar with a pre 10/1 virgin lower? I sent an email to the MDSP but haven't heard anything back. I only ask as some people on this board are adamant you cannot.

You mean you didn't put a completed upper on every lower you had prior to October 1st?

If you did place an upper on each lower, then it's perfectly legal to replace the parts down the road.

 

[garciacorp]

I too am in the post 10/1 market , can anyone list a general cost on HBAR upper from engage?

 

[dtmeyers]

MSP seems to be treating the date of the build as the important one.

Where is your source? You mention SBRs in your other posts. SBRs are an entirely different category.

The problem is, you can do anything you want. But do you really want to be the test case? Starting with arrest. Having all your firearms confiscated. Trail, Legal bills. All even if you are found Not Guilty. And then, trying to get your firearms back.

Of course Guilty would be prison, and loss of the right to ever own a firearm again.

YOU have to decide if it is worth it.

Thanks for the scare tactics! If I get an email from the Licensing division saying I can - I'll do it. If I get an email saying I cannot - I won't. At least then I will have information from a source

 

[Wombat Rancher]

Thanks for all the replies, looks like a trip to Engage is in order.

 

[Pinecone]

Where is your source? You mention SBRs in your other posts. SBRs are an entirely different category.

Thanks for the scare tactics! If I get an email from the Licensing division saying I can - I'll do it. If I get an email saying I cannot - I won't. At least then I will have information from a source

IF you get an answer back, let us know. Either way. And if they say it is OK, I am good with that.

And I agree, if the say fine, then you are good to go. But keep a copy of the letter, because things might change later.

But my point is, MSP is saying the date of making the SBR drives the rules governing them, NOT the date of purchase of the lower.

If you are BUILDING the firearm post Oct 1, 2013, they are saying you may not built it into a banned configuration.

The only safe thing to do, until/unless you get word back from them, is to treat ANY build the same way.

 

[dtmeyers]

Received an email 2 days after sending.

Derek,

Since you bought the lower prior to October 1, 2013, you don't have to just put a heavy barrel on. Have a good day.

Trooper First Class (name redacted) - figure he doesn't want a bunch of phone calls​

Here is the email I sent to the licensing department

Hello, I purchased and possessed a lower receiver Pre 10/1/2013.

I would like to complete the rifle. Can I put an upper receiver with any type of barrel profile? Or am I limited to only heavy profile barrels? Thank you.​

So there you have it. That being said this is not an official statement with MDSP letterhead yadda yadda but good enough for me. I am also a random person from the internet so if you want proof yourself email them for yourself at msp.Licensing@maryland.gov

 

[rj91jeep]

I have been very happy with my Precision Firearms upper and plan on getting another soon. They are alittle higher in price but worth the money.

 

[ObsceneJesster]

Received an email 2 days after sending.

Derek,

Since you bought the lower prior to October 1, 2013, you don't have to just put a heavy barrel on. Have a good day.

Trooper First Class (name redacted) - figure he doesn't want a bunch of phone calls​

Here is the email I sent to the licensing department

Hello, I purchased and possessed a lower receiver Pre 10/1/2013.

I would like to complete the rifle. Can I put an upper receiver with any type of barrel profile? Or am I limited to only heavy profile barrels? Thank you.​

So there you have it. That being said this is not an official statement with MDSP letterhead yadda yadda but good enough for me. I am also a random person from the internet so if you want proof yourself email them for yourself at msp.Licensing@maryland.gov

Those who thought otherwise either didn't know what they were talking about or they are pissed that they didn't stock up on "PRE-BAN" lowers.

Think about this for a second. If you weren't able to build whatever you wanted with a lower purchased prior to October 1st then why would the MSP allow you to take possession of the lower after that date. Many people purchased a lower on the last day of September but didn't actually take possession of it until after October 1st and the MSP allowed this. In fact, they even gave the FFL's written permission.

Lastly, people didn't even start this nonsense until after lowers were available again for HBAR purposes.

They're called "PRE-BAN" lowers for a reason!

 

[Pinecone]

Received an email 2 days after sending.

Derek,

Since you bought the lower prior to October 1, 2013, you don't have to just put a heavy barrel on. Have a good day.

Trooper First Class (name redacted) - figure he doesn't want a bunch of phone calls​

Here is the email I sent to the licensing department

Hello, I purchased and possessed a lower receiver Pre 10/1/2013.

I would like to complete the rifle. Can I put an upper receiver with any type of barrel profile? Or am I limited to only heavy profile barrels? Thank you.​

So there you have it. That being said this is not an official statement with MDSP letterhead yadda yadda but good enough for me. I am also a random person from the internet so if you want proof yourself email them for yourself at msp.Licensing@maryland.gov

Good news.

Will you make the full email available to those who need it?

But what we really need, is for a legislature to ask the AG for an official opinion.

MSP has been known to give different people different answers. And even change the "official policy."

 

[Pinecone]

Those who thought otherwise either didn't know what they were talking about or they are pissed that they didn't stock up on "PRE-BAN" lowers.

Think about this for a second. If you weren't able to build whatever you wanted with a lower purchased prior to October 1st then why would the MSP allow you to take possession of the lower after that date. Many people purchased a lower on the last day of September but didn't actually take possession of it until after October 1st and the MSP allowed this. In fact, they even gave the FFL's written permission.

Lastly, people didn't even start this nonsense until after lowers were available again for HBAR purposes.

They're called "PRE-BAN" lowers for a reason!

No, just trying to make sense of how MSP is applying the law. They are NOT allowing pre-Oct 1, 2013 lowers to be built into <29" SBRs. This implies that the BUILD date is the one that they are going by.

As for taking possesion after Oct 1, 2013 if you purchased before then, that was NOT up to MSP, that is in the LAW.

 

[ObsceneJesster]

No, just trying to make sense of how MSP is applying the law. They are NOT allowing pre-Oct 1, 2013 lowers to be built into <29" SBRs. This implies that the BUILD date is the one that they are going by.

As for taking possesion after Oct 1, 2013 if you purchased before then, that was NOT up to MSP, that is in the LAW.

In regards to taking possession of the banned firearm after October 1st, I know this. I was mentioning the letter from the MSP that went out to all FFL's telling them the law and this was included on the letter. If the MSP sent the letter on letter head, then I'd imagine they were quoting the law.

In regards to not allowing SBR's that fall under the 29" limit, there is a very stupid reason for this. Your "pre ban" lower is already registered with the MSP. If you were to take that lower and use it for a SBR build, it would need to be re-registered in the MSP data base as a Class 3. Per SB281, the MSP cannon register banned configurations after October 1st 2013. If you were to build a standard 16" carbine with one of your prebans, it obviously does not need to be registered again since it was already registered as either a Rifle or "other". Personally, I opted to have all mine registered as rifles since I have no plans on building a pistol. So you see. If something is already registered with the MSP as a rifle then that's what they assume it is. Why? Because that's the law.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

 

[embermage]

You know, rather than press for clarification at every turn, why not be happy in the grey area? Keep on pushing the issue with MSP and they might just decide that HBAR only means a COLT HBAR no clones. (And note, I am not talking about SBR configs, that is a different issue due to NFA, etc). Just saying we got a break in being able to build AR pistols and HBAR ARs, rather that didn't go away because someone has an innate need to see every jot and tittle in a published format, double spaced, in triplicate, with official seals and watermarks throughout . Yes, I am being a bit silly, but maybe this is a topic someone should make a faq on as a sticky and keep it updated as new information becomes available.

 

[DaemonAssassin]

You know, rather than press for clarification at every turn, why not be happy in the grey area? Keep on pushing the issue with MSP and they might just decide that HBAR only means a COLT HBAR no clones. (And note, I am not talking about SBR configs, that is a different issue due to NFA, etc). Just saying we got a break in being able to build AR pistols and HBAR ARs, rather that didn't go away because someone has an innate need to see every jot and tittle in a published format, double spaced, in triplicate, with official seals and watermarks throughout . Yes, I am being a bit silly, but maybe this is a topic someone should make a faq on as a sticky and keep it updated as new information becomes available.

ewros created the thread. Check in the MD Legislation section...

 

[rico903]

MSP seems to be treating the date of the build as the important one.

Let us know if you get a response back.

The problem is, you can do anything you want. But do you really want to be the test case? Starting with arrest. Having all your firearms confiscated. Trail, Legal bills. All even if you are found Not Guilty. And then, trying to get your firearms back.

Of course Guilty would be prison, and loss of the right to ever own a firearm again.

YOU have to decide if it is worth it.

Me, I will NOT push the rules.

Totally agreed with this. I have 3 pre ban lowers I over paid for several years ago so would have to sell at a loss and full pre ban Colt Match Target Hbar that is heavy as heck but I would not change the barrel profile. Nor put a non Hbar upper on the lowers.

 

[Pinecone]

Before you run out and put a pencil barrel upper on your pre-ban lower, here is the email I got back from MSP on the same question.

My question:

Are lower receivers purchased prior to Oct 1, 2013 allowed to be built now (September 2014 with no previous assembly) into a banned configuration? ie with a non-HBAR barrel profile?

The answer:

We are waiting for a response from the State for the very same questions that you ask. Unfortunately, I do not know when we will have additional information to provide. Once we receive the information, we will post an FAQ or an Advisory on our website.

So THIS trooper is saying they do not have guidance on the matter at this point. So you may be fine, or you may not be.

Up to you.

Personally, I would NOT build a banned configuration at this time.

 

[fidelity]

Interesting.

1) so if a MD resident bought a lower September 1, 2013 from a shop that was waiting for the state police 77R sign-off before releasing, and thus received after September 30, 2013, they never had a chance to mate their lower to a non-HBAR rifle upper before the change in law, so may have lost this option now.

2) if someone bought a lower between September 23 and 30, 2013, from a shop releasing a regulated firearm in 8 days (irrespective of the backlogged state police 77R approvals), they lost the option to assemble a non-HBAR rifle.

Was there legislative intent to create these barriers on property purchased prior to the start of the new law? If there was, why was there a rush to buy lowers in September 2013? Should people have re-registered lowers that they "assembled" into non-HBAR rifles prior to October 1, 2013? So much silliness from this state when it comes to interpretation of firearm laws.

(and not directing at you, Pinecone, just the general absurdity of the situation)

 

[dtmeyers]

Before you run out and put a pencil barrel upper on your pre-ban lower, here is the email I got back from MSP on the same question....
Personally, I would NOT build a banned configuration at this time.

So you have repeatedly in the past commented how you are not allowed to build a pre-10/1 lower into a banned config. But you only now, after I emailed the MDSP, you decide to do the same? Why didn't you do this before giving advice?

If someone asks you for directions and you don't know - do you act like you do and give them directions anyway?

 

[DaemonAssassin]

So you have repeatedly in the past commented how you are not allowed to build a pre-10/1 lower into a banned config. But you only now, after I emailed the MDSP, you decide to do the same? Why didn't you do this before giving advice?

If someone asks you for directions and you don't know - do you act like you do and give them directions anyway?

It's his way...

 

[Pinecone]

So you have repeatedly in the past commented how you are not allowed to build a pre-10/1 lower into a banned config. But you only now, after I emailed the MDSP, you decide to do the same? Why didn't you do this before giving advice?

If someone asks you for directions and you don't know - do you act like you do and give them directions anyway?

In point of fact, I never said it was illegal. I said the MSP is treating the BUILD date at the appropriate date versus the purchase date. So building a pencil barrel MAY not be legal now. And that anyone was free to be the test case.

I applauded you for contacting the MSP, but wondered it the person that answered you knew what they were talking about. And it seems they did not.

 

[Afrikeber]

Yes concur with all the Engage recommendations. it's a win win for all. You get an awesome upper and you support a local shop.