Are Stiff Wrists The Secret To Recoil Management?

[Tungsten]

I've been experimenting with my grip for a while now trying to manage recoil better. I have watched countless videos on passive/active grips with thumb forward, wrists locked, elbows in multiple positions etc. Recently I watched a video (maybe Tactical Pro Center) where the guy shot 1-handed with just one finger on the grip and I noticed he was still managing recoil better than I can (grip). I have also seen a video of a guy standing on one foot controlling recoil very well (stance). I also recently became aware that I have somewhat weak wrists. As I've been strengthening my wrists, it seems like I've been able to control recoil better, even when purposefully altering my grip.

So my question for the masses is whether you think wrist strength is actually more important than all the other principles of handgun shooting (grip, stance, trigger pull, etc) for managing recoil?

 

[Occam]

I'm sort of an orangutan, so I just don't ever seem to have problems with recoil. But my wife can. She doesn't care about how it feels, or have any trouble keeping her grip, but she sometimes (depending on the pistol) wishes she could get back on target faster, or - with some guns - can have some functionality problems that I would normally associate with limp-wristing. For example, I've got a very light weight G19-ish P80 build. I just can't make that thing malfunction. But the missus get stovepipe that thing like nobody's business.

She's look strange indeed with arms my size, so we worked instead on upper body posture, elbow position and otherwise giving that pistol a better backstop. Presto, no more malfunctions. Her wrists didn't get any stronger, but her posture change gave the gun more to work against.

 

[Tungsten]

That's the weird thing- I have no issues with limp-wristing induced malfunctions. My major problem is getting back on target. I'm 250, not jacked, but plenty of muscle so it wasn't an issue of overall strength. But it does seem like the more I strengthen my wrists the better I grip the gun. One thing I've never been able to do is "lock" my wrists. I've tried overpronating them, gripping extra hard, changing the angles of my elbows, etc., but none of that seemed to help my wrists fight recoil.

 

[RoadDawg]

I've been experimenting with my grip for a while now trying to manage recoil better. I have watched countless videos on passive/active grips with thumb forward, wrists locked, elbows in multiple positions etc. Recently I watched a video (maybe Tactical Pro Center) where the guy shot 1-handed with just one finger on the grip and I noticed he was still managing recoil better than I can (grip). I have also seen a video of a guy standing on one foot controlling recoil very well (stance). I also recently became aware that I have somewhat weak wrists. As I've been strengthening my wrists, it seems like I've been able to control recoil better, even when purposefully altering my grip.

So my question for the masses is whether you think wrist strength is actually more important than all the other principles of handgun shooting (grip, stance, trigger pull, etc) for managing recoil?

More important?
No.

Each of the things you mention are components, which when put together, make up the entirety of your shooting experience. Wrist strength is important. Some pistols are prone to malfunctioning when they are held and fired with a limp wrist. A firm hold is crucial to proper cycling during recoil as the slide travels backward, then forward, to eject the spent casing and pick up the next round. The pistol needs to be held firmly to accomplish that process properly. If not, the resulting issue may be a failure to feed.

This issue does not arise when firing a revolver. So… some folks who’ve gotten used to “absorbing recoil” by using a lighter hold on a revolver, may have trouble transitioning to a pistol. At least until they learn to establish a firm hold on the pistol, so that it cycles properly.

You don’t need a “death grip” on your pistol. But, a firm hold will serve you well and help you in managing recoil and getting back on target faster.

Your stance will also make a difference. Depending on how you face the target, feet side by side… or strong foot to the rear, a slight forward lean can help.

 

[Blaster229]

You are controlling 2 things, Recoil (the slide sliding straight back) and muzzle flip.

Your grip middle finger and thumb should be the vice grip on your strong hand. Then your ring finger and pinky.
Your strong arm should be straight. This is what provides the counter force to the recoil, which keeps the slide going into battery.

Your support hand/arm is what keeps the pistol from going left and up(assuming you are right handed). Get that meaty part of your palm in the empty space on the left grip, and fingers tightly around the front. Then just torque your left hand slightly to the right on the pistol. What helps is having your left elbow bent slightly. The thumb forward, to me, aids more with pointing the pistol where it needs to be pointing.
This is all totally impossible to explain in text.

The thing is, we can never eliminate 100 percent of recoil. We also need to learn how to shoot with it in the shooting process.
Sight sight, squeeze squeeze, shot, muzzle flip, reset the sight picture coming back down and at the same time resetting the trigger, back down on sight, squeeze the trigger. Repeat.

Stance has ZILCH to do with sight alignment/recoil control. Stance helps us be tactical when we need to move.

 

[Mark75H]

Stance has ZILCH to do with sight alignment/recoil control. Stance helps us be tactical when we need to move.

I disagree with that statement. You must be balanced. You can't hold still if you are not balanced, you can aim beyond point shooting if you are moving.

 

[Boats]

You are controlling 2 things, Recoil (the slide sliding straight back) and muzzle flip.

Your grip middle finger and thumb should be the vice grip on your strong hand. Then your ring finger and pinky.
Your strong arm should be straight. This is what provides the counter force to the recoil, which keeps the slide going into battery.

Your support hand/arm is what keeps the pistol from going left and up(assuming you are right handed). Get that meaty part of your palm in the empty space on the left grip, and fingers tightly around the front. Then just torque your left hand slightly to the right on the pistol. What helps is having your left elbow bent slightly. The thumb forward, to me, aids more with pointing the pistol where it needs to be pointing.
This is all totally impossible to explain in text.

The thing is, we can never eliminate 100 percent of recoil. We also need to learn how to shoot with it in the shooting process.
Sight sight, squeeze squeeze, shot, muzzle flip, reset the sight picture coming back down and at the same time resetting the trigger, back down on sight, squeeze the trigger. Repeat.

Stance has ZILCH to do with sight alignment/recoil control. Stance helps us be tactical when we need to move.

This.

Also, here is a good video of what Blaster is talking about:

 

[Blaster229]

I disagree with that statement. You must be balanced. You can't hold still if you are not balanced, you can aim beyond point shooting if you are moving.

You never stood on 1 leg and shot? It isn't hard. We're not talking trying to hit a dime.

 

[Mark75H]

You never stood on 1 leg and shot? It isn't hard. We're not talking trying to hit a dime.

Then we agree.

 

[Blaster229]

Then we agree.

I don't teach people how to hit a dime. There's no need. It's all part of building their confidence and knowing they can land good shots under bad conditions.

 

[erwos]

Besides just gripping hard (especially with pinky and ring fingers) with the support hand, I torque my support wrist to get a better grip into the gun, which is a trick that the Gorospe/Wampler class really emphasized. That, for me, has made a substantial difference in my quick, consistent sight return (which may be a better description for what we're trying to accomplish than "recoil control").

TBH, my biggest impediment to shooting fast is visual processing, not recoil control or pulling the trigger fast. Brian Enos discusses this a lot in his book, and once you get it, you get it. I have spent significant time working splits, and it is amazing how consistent they are - and how much lower you can get them with focused effort.

 

[RoadDawg]

I disagree with that statement. You must be balanced. You can't hold still if you are not balanced, you can aim beyond point shooting if you are moving.

Balance is most certainly a part of the equation. It’s difficult to get back on target, when one is off balance and falling backwards.

 

[Magnumite]

Its physics, OP. When I shoot two sets of muscles are doing the gun work…my hands and my shoulders. Everything else is along for the ride and more of a ‘skeletal’ structural support. This way there is no muscle fatigue concerns to change shot placement.

You hit the proper term…recoil management. A given grip size/strength, arm weight and body mass will have to absorb X amount of recoil. Do not lock any joint, you can’t stop the recoil. The gripping muscles of the hand start in the forearm, so the firm grip will firm the wrists. How you hold the pistol, and index your body relative to the target, will change over time as you learn to manage the recoil more effectively. Your grip should be firm…firmer the better without loss of dexterity and no tremble.

FWIW, the body index..base I call it…greatly affects your ability to make repeatable shot placements. It will affect point index and neutral recovery (tracking) from shot to shot. There is not an accomplished shooter who doesn’t work for that platform. Sometimes you will see action shooters or combatants take imperfect shooting positions…that is another subject. How many snipers use standing as their default position?

As a bonus to maintaining a good firm grip..it will make the trigger pull seem lighter.

 

[AssMan]

A firm grip (and a high-friction set of grips) is what mitigates recoil and makes quick follow-up shots possible.

EDIT: assuming the shooter is not doing something else incorrectly. Also, I don't think you can really tell how well you're mitigating recoil until your 3rd shot in a quick string.

 

[Magnumite]

+1 ^^^

 

[Racinready300ex-2]

If you ask a bunch of guys to really explain in detail how they grip you'll probably get a bunch of answers. Sometimes wording something a little different might make it click. So lots of ideas are a good thing IMO.

I wouldn't say most important, but yes, to really lock the wrist you're engaging the muscles in your forearm. Most people have more than enough strength to handle a 9mm, but aren't using it. I tend to be in the camp of grip pretty hard with support hand and just firmly hold the gun with my strong hand. Forearms are engaged to help lock the wrists. My wrist angle is fairly neutral. I get wrist pain if I try a vogel type extreme wrist angle. How my support hand interacts with the grip is really important to me when deciding if a gun fits me.

I think people can get to hung up on the gun being flat. Really it doesn't matter how much flip you get as long as the gun comes back to where you want it to.

 

[BurkeM]

You are controlling 2 things, Recoil (the slide sliding straight back) and muzzle flip.

Your grip middle finger and thumb should be the vice grip on your strong hand. Then your ring finger and pinky.
Your strong arm should be straight. This is what provides the counter force to the recoil, which keeps the slide going into battery.

Absolutely correct.

Your support hand/arm is what keeps the pistol from going left and up(assuming you are right handed).

Also correct.