Australian Gun Laws

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  • Yankee

    Member
    May 5, 2008
    14
    Adelaide, Australia
    Now I know that residents of Maryland bitch about their tough gun laws compared to other states but spare a thought for those of us stuck in Australia. To Australians like me, Maryland (or even New York or California for that matter) look like heaven for gun owners. Let me give you an idea of what we face. Anybody wanting to use or own a firearm must be licensed by the State Police - no exceptions. Getting an initial licence costs $150 and must be renewed ever year for another $65. To get the licence, you must undergo a full Police background check, wait 4 weeks for the application to be approved and then attend at a mandatory practical training course. The course costs another $150 and there are no exceptions made for anybody which means that former military and law enforcement must spend three agonising days sitting through Power Point slides explaining what a gun is and how not to shoot yourself with one. Assuming you pass this rigorous course:lol2: you will then be sent a letter telling you to attend a police station to have your photograph taken and to pay the fee. Your photographic licence will then be mailed to you about two weeks later.

    OK, you've got your licence and your now ready to go shooting - WRONG. You now have to apply for a permit to purchase a gun. Fill out the form explaining what category of gun you want, where you plan to buy it from, what you intend to use it for, where and how will it be stored, pay another $50 and wait two more weeks. Alright, you've got your letter from the Police giving you permission to buy a particular weapon, you've paid the licensed gun dealer the money and you're ready to go shooting - WRONG. You now have to register the gun with the police. Pay more money, wait more time and finally you are allowed to legally use your firearm.

    This process applies to every single category of guns including BB Guns. Semi-auto centrefire weapons and hand-guns are completely illegal and are only available to the military, law-enforcement and certain members of the public under extremely limited conditions. The same laws apply to the purchase of ammunition and you can only buy ammunition for the type of licence you have ie if you have a class B licence which allows you to use shotguns and bolt-action centrefires, you cannot purchase class A ammunition such as air rifle pellets or .22 rimfire. You must present your photographic licence for any purchase of ammunition including components such as cases and projectiles. Conceal and carry is completely illegal in Australia. To top it all off, the taxes and importation duties we pay on guns and ammunition makes it so expensive that even if you can be bothered dealing with all of the bureaucracy, you can't afford the sport once you finally get a licence.

    Prior to the Port Arthur massacre in 1996, Australia's gun laws were even more liberal that most American states. In 1994 I was able to walk into a police station, show my drivers licence and walk out with a paper gun licence. With nothing more than that piece of paper, I was able to go to a gun show in Brisbane, buy an M1 Carbine from a private individual and neither he or I were required to record the details of the transaction or inform the police of the sale. We went from that level of freedom to near complete disarmament of the public in a matter of months (well not complete disarmament:innocent0). I don't have to tell anyone on this forum about the wisdom of the founding fathers but hopefully the experience of Australians will give you a better understanding of just how precious the 2nd Amendment is.
     

    BigCity

    retired undertaker
    Oct 24, 2007
    3,030
    Carroll County
    Yankee,

    Holy Crap!!! Sorry for your problems.

    You mentioned in your statement that only certain few individuals can possess a semi-auto or revolver.

    Can you elaborate on those "certain few"?
     

    Spot77

    Ultimate Member
    May 8, 2005
    11,591
    Anne Arundel County
    Thanks for sharing that. It's a great reminder of how vigilant we must be in protecting our rights. Most of us on this forum spend a good bit of time and money fighting bad gun laws and lobbying for the good ones.


    You sound like you're going to fit in well here.

    Cheers :beer:
     

    epc3762

    Active Member
    Dec 30, 2007
    408
    Forest Hill, Maryland
    Should this thread be deleted so as not to make to many suggestions to the Brady bunch.... and the anti's??

    Just kidding. :lol2:

    That really is bad. Better not happen here. I don't know your legal system but it definitely needs to change. That would cause an outright war here.

    Now I know that residents of Maryland bitch about their tough gun laws compared to other states but spare a thought for those of us stuck in Australia. To Australians like me, Maryland (or even New York or California for that matter) look like heaven for gun owners. Let me give you an idea of what we face. Anybody wanting to use or own a firearm must be licensed by the State Police - no exceptions. Getting an initial licence costs $150 and must be renewed ever year for another $65. To get the licence, you must undergo a full Police background check, wait 4 weeks for the application to be approved and then attend at a mandatory practical training course. The course costs another $150 and there are no exceptions made for anybody which means that former military and law enforcement must spend three agonising days sitting through Power Point slides explaining what a gun is and how not to shoot yourself with one. Assuming you pass this rigorous course:lol2: you will then be sent a letter telling you to attend a police station to have your photograph taken and to pay the fee. Your photographic licence will then be mailed to you about two weeks later.

    OK, you've got your licence and your now ready to go shooting - WRONG. You now have to apply for a permit to purchase a gun. Fill out the form explaining what category of gun you want, where you plan to buy it from, what you intend to use it for, where and how will it be stored, pay another $50 and wait two more weeks. Alright, you've got your letter from the Police giving you permission to buy a particular weapon, you've paid the licensed gun dealer the money and you're ready to go shooting - WRONG. You now have to register the gun with the police. Pay more money, wait more time and finally you are allowed to legally use your firearm.

    This process applies to every single category of guns including BB Guns. Semi-auto centrefire weapons and hand-guns are completely illegal and are only available to the military, law-enforcement and certain members of the public under extremely limited conditions. The same laws apply to the purchase of ammunition and you can only buy ammunition for the type of licence you have ie if you have a class B licence which allows you to use shotguns and bolt-action centrefires, you cannot purchase class A ammunition such as air rifle pellets or .22 rimfire. You must present your photographic licence for any purchase of ammunition including components such as cases and projectiles. Conceal and carry is completely illegal in Australia. To top it all off, the taxes and importation duties we pay on guns and ammunition makes it so expensive that even if you can be bothered dealing with all of the bureaucracy, you can't afford the sport once you finally get a licence.

    Prior to the Port Arthur massacre in 1996, Australia's gun laws were even more liberal that most American states. In 1994 I was able to walk into a police station, show my drivers licence and walk out with a paper gun licence. With nothing more than that piece of paper, I was able to go to a gun show in Brisbane, buy an M1 Carbine from a private individual and neither he or I were required to record the details of the transaction or inform the police of the sale. We went from that level of freedom to near complete disarmament of the public in a matter of months (well not complete disarmament:innocent0). I don't have to tell anyone on this forum about the wisdom of the founding fathers but hopefully the experience of Australians will give you a better understanding of just how precious the 2nd Amendment is.
     

    jpk1md

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 13, 2007
    11,313
    All that and they don't even have the decency to microchip you and give you a kiss on the cheek eh?

    In all seriousness your story should serve as a reminder to all of us to remain vigilant to be sure we preserve the 2A and shooting sports for future generations.

    The best way to do that is to be sure to take a kid shooting, teach safety etc.

    Yankee, what was the political climate like in Oz before the big ban was rammed through? Were there perennial battles over gun laws or did it come out of the blue?
     

    Norton

    NRA Endowment Member, Rifleman
    Staff member
    Admin
    Moderator
    May 22, 2005
    122,906
    Make no mistake, this is what sort of "reasonable" restriction they have in mind for us here. Remember, Rebecca Peters from IANSA is the architect of Australia's current laws.
     

    Yankee

    Member
    May 5, 2008
    14
    Adelaide, Australia
    BigCity - Getting a handgun is extremely difficult in Australia. You have a couple of options though. Firstly you could get a job as a licensed security guard where the job requires you to be armed such as at a bank. Very few Australian security guards are armed so just being a Mall Cop isn't going to cut it. You must provide written evidence of your employment and your employer must notify the police as soon as you are no longer required in that role so that your licence can be cancelled. Another option is to become a farmer of large stock such as horses or cattle. Special licences are granted to these farmers to allow them to dispatch wounded or sick animals but once again there are very strict evidence requirements so simply growing some vegetables in your back yard isn't enough to call yourself a "Farmer". The third and final option is to become a club shooter. In addition to all of the other licence requirements, you must attend a 10 session handgun training course at a cost of $350, be a member of an approved club (minimum annual membership fee of $250) and attend at least six club shoots throughout the year. There is also a probation period in that you can only purchase an air pistol or .22 pistol in the first twelve months and if you fail to attend six shoots or pay your annual membership fee, your licence is immediately cancelled.
     

    DD214

    Founder
    Apr 26, 2005
    14,080
    St Mary's County
    So, what happened to all of the firearms that were already privately owned? Did they conduct door to door confiscations? Was there any type of revolt? What a nightmare. But then again, if they had no record of who owned what... :innocent0
     

    Yankee

    Member
    May 5, 2008
    14
    Adelaide, Australia
    JPK1MD - the political climate was actually pretty conservative at the time which made the betrayal so much worse. The country had just elected John Howard as our Prime Minister after 13 years of continuous Labor Party rule (our equivalent of the Democrats). Howard's election win was a landslide and was seen as a significant move back towards conservative values. The impetus for the disarmament was a horrible gun massacre in Tasmania where a single male whack-job was able to kill 35 people with an AR-15 and FN-FAL. It was one of the worst civilian massacres not only in Australia but also in the world. The problem is that although Australia is a huge country with lots of "frontier", the vast majority of the people (around 90% live in our large cities on the coast. Most Australians had never seen let alone used a gun and when the massacre occured, the small voice of the responsible shooting community was drowned out in a wave of popular anti-gun sentiment. Although a conservative Prime Minister, John Howard had no real option but to heed the public's demand to heavily restrict gun ownership. He proved himself to be one of the best Prime Ministers we've ever had and was only voted out last November but many of us will never forgive him for what he did in 1996.
     

    Yankee

    Member
    May 5, 2008
    14
    Adelaide, Australia
    So, what happened to all of the firearms that were already privately owned? Did they conduct door to door confiscations? Was there any type of revolt? What a nightmare. But then again, if they had no record of who owned what... :innocent0

    There was a 1% levy added to evey Australian's income tax to generate a "Buy-Back Fund". Five Hundred million dollars was spent buying back semi-auto weapons from the population although only 5% of the weapons handed in were military style assulat weapons. It's estimated that around 40% of all semi-autos were handed back in with the other 60% still being kept illegally. The reason why they managed to get even 40% was because the prices paid for some of these weapons was too good to refuse. Many assualt weapons were crappy Chinese knock-offs like SKS' and the government was so desperate to get them off the streets that they were paying 4-5 times what people had bought for them. The other part of the equation is that the penalties for being found in possesion of illegal weapons are severe and almost always involve some jail time so even staunch defenders of an armed citizenry felt that the price to pay for being caught was too high to risk.
     

    DD214

    Founder
    Apr 26, 2005
    14,080
    St Mary's County
    Ouch. Well, I would offer to let you shoot one of my ARs and my FAL when you are out here, but that would probably be in bad taste. Seriously though, next time you are in MD you have a standing offer from me to go shooting. I've got an 8 year old son that likes to knock the center out of targets with an M4gery that would accompany me as well. I don't know what types of firearms you prefer to shoot, but I've got an assortment of AR-15s, AK-47s, M1A, FAL, PTR-91(HK-91), etc., etc., etc. (I never divulge all of them). I see that you are interested in a Rem 700, but I don't have any bolt actions to offer. As for handguns, I've got an assortment of those as well if you are interested. Just keep in touch and let me know. I'll even provide the ammo.
     

    jpk1md

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 13, 2007
    11,313
    JPK1MD - the political climate was actually pretty conservative at the time which made the betrayal so much worse. The country had just elected John Howard as our Prime Minister after 13 years of continuous Labor Party rule (our equivalent of the Democrats). Howard's election win was a landslide and was seen as a significant move back towards conservative values. The impetus for the disarmament was a horrible gun massacre in Tasmania where a single male whack-job was able to kill 35 people with an AR-15 and FN-FAL. It was one of the worst civilian massacres not only in Australia but also in the world. The problem is that although Australia is a huge country with lots of "frontier", the vast majority of the people (around 90% live in our large cities on the coast. Most Australians had never seen let alone used a gun and when the massacre occured, the small voice of the responsible shooting community was drowned out in a wave of popular anti-gun sentiment. Although a conservative Prime Minister, John Howard had no real option but to heed the public's demand to heavily restrict gun ownership. He proved himself to be one of the best Prime Ministers we've ever had and was only voted out last November but many of us will never forgive him for what he did in 1996.

    I've heard that the Aussie "Conservatives" are about as conservative as the American "Liberals" and that your Liberals are completely off the the left end of the spectrum.....any truth to that?
     

    Yankee

    Member
    May 5, 2008
    14
    Adelaide, Australia
    I've heard that the Aussie "Conservatives" are about as conservative as the American "Liberals" and that your Liberals are completely off the the left end of the spectrum.....any truth to that?

    It's a bit illogical but the Liberal Party are our conservatives while the Labor Party are our liberals/progressives. The two parties are actually pretty close to their American equivalents in terms of how far to the Left and Right they both are. For example, our conservatives (Liberal Party) are generally tough on illegal immigration, oppose gay marriage, support the Iraq war, would rather decrease taxes instead of creating new ones and are hesitant to destroy our economy in order to stop global warming. Our progressive Labour Party are pretty much the opposite.
     

    Rattlesnake46319

    Curmidget
    Apr 1, 2008
    11,032
    Jefferson County, MO
    Ouch. Well, I would offer to let you shoot one of my ARs and my FAL when you are out here, but that would probably be in bad taste. Seriously though, next time you are in MD you have a standing offer from me to go shooting. I've got an 8 year old son that likes to knock the center out of targets with an M4gery that would accompany me as well. I don't know what types of firearms you prefer to shoot, but I've got an assortment of AR-15s, AK-47s, M1A, FAL, PTR-91(HK-91), etc., etc., etc. (I never divulge all of them). I see that you are interested in a Rem 700, but I don't have any bolt actions to offer. As for handguns, I've got an assortment of those as well if you are interested. Just keep in touch and let me know. I'll even provide the ammo.

    :thumbsup::thumbsup:

    Yankee, let us know when you'll be coming state-side. You're welcome to shoot any of my limited collection.
     

    shadow116

    2nd Class Citizen
    Feb 28, 2008
    1,542
    Emmitsburg
    How about Ireland

    ...here in Ireland it takes anywhere up to 3 years to get a license for a handgun, and even as I write they are busy changing the laws to restrict your ability to carry it. Since April 1st.. (don't laugh), it's against the law to carry your licensed carry firearm, technically to carry your firearm you need 3 secured steel cases

    #1) for the pistol frame
    #2) for the barrel and magazines
    #3) for your ammunition

    So if you need to defend yourself (which is now also illegal) you have to open the 3 secured cases, complete your firearm, load the magazine and then not use it in a manner likely to upset the populace in general, we cant go around scaring the sheep now can we?

    They have even outlawed any form of tactical or practical firearms training, all handgun licenses are now restricted to use for "static paper punching only"

    What a wonderful system we have......"


    http://shootingmessengers.blogspot.com/2008/05/whenever-you-think-that-we-have-it.html
     

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