rockstarr
Major Deplorable
What are the advantages of one of these to the the other ? Aside from generally needing a sonic cleaner for mono cores vs baffle stacks being serviceable.
What are the advantages of one of these to the the other ? Aside from generally needing a sonic cleaner for mono cores vs baffle stacks being serviceable.
You need a sonic for both but you can put cups into a pin tumbler, which I think is an advantage.
Each has their advantages and disadvantages.
So are we talking about .22 or any caliber?
All calibers.
As example, dead air has mostly monocore/solidwelds
Griffin has more baffle stack suppressors.
I’m curious to know the pro and cons of why go with one design over the other.
I am sure each has its advantages.
Dead Air does not sell any monocore products that I’m aware of. A Welded baffle stack (tubeless or not) is not the same thing as a monocore design. Probably the most popular company that specializes in monocore designs is Liberty. There are other companies that do it (many who weld the monocore in the tube so one wouldn’t necessarily notice it)All calibers.
As example, dead air has mostly monocore/solidwelds
Griffin has more baffle stack suppressors.
I’m curious to know the pro and cons of why go with one design over the other.
I am sure each has its advantages.
]That said one of the 13 or 14 suppressors I own is a Liberty Cosmic, and it sounds pretty good. No major complaints, especially for what I paid for it.
The first 8 or so were purchased when the major manufacturers were offering insane discounts due to everyone holding out for HPA. So really it’s more like I bought 3 or 4 at full price and got 4 or 5 for free. But the ATF sure has gotten their pound of flesh out of me.13 or 14? You are my hero.
They all have their place, and benefits/ issues
Monocore- simple and easy to disassemble and clean, can just use round brushes from the side. Best for 22s and integrally suppressed centerfire where the outer tube can just slide off, and the stack is serviceable still attatched to the barrel(can be integral or welded on a short barre for 16" lengths). Downside in 22s is they can get stuck easy without a shield to keep the tube from getting fouled. More internal volume can mean good performance, but also more first round pop. Limited by machining tech to relatively simple shapes. There are some that are welded, IMO it negates the only real benefits the design has currently.
Serviceable baffle stack- works on everything, 22, pistol cal, and rifle cal. They are easily adapted to modular designs as the mount, cap, tube, and baffles are usually separate components. Cleaning and dissasembly can be simple or involved. Depending on design the baffles may be able to rotate and can cause a POI shift. You can have complex circular baffles for excellent performance, or tuned for suppression vs backpressure. They can click together to shield the outer tube from fouling, really good feature on 22s. Many of the downsides like complexity, stuck baffles, and unscrewing apart while shooting can be solved with good designs, but they still tend to be heavy with less internal volume. Some older designs were welded, but the welds can be removed from the tube, and it can be made serviceable in some cases.
Tubeless- using baffles without an outer tube cuts weight, and allows more internal volume, it can still be modular, especially with a serviceable can where baffles simply screw together in any length. The main issue is cleaning, where screw-together baffles have the outer finish on them, and can get beat up when cleaning. They also need to be either screwed together baffle by baffle, adding a lot of weight, complexity, and creating several spots that can come apart when shooting. Some 22s feature this design, but the vast majority are welded rifle-cal cans.
Welded vs serviceable is usually a matter of need, 22s NEED to be serviceable, as the round is filthy. High pressure rifle cals don't need to be serviceable as the muzzle blast keeps breaking up fouling keeping it from building up. Pistol cans can be either-or, cast bullets and light loads can get a can dirty, but generally FMJ and higher velocity stay pretty clean. The best feature of a welded can is that it doesn't come apart, can still have modular mounts and end caps, even modular sections, no shift in POI, only a point or two where it could come apart while shooting(or none with 1 piece can/ fixed mount). The worst feature is also that it can't come apart, so no easy cleaning, and if damaged, better chance of replacement or cutting/rewelding for repairs, not simply swapping components. There are also baffle-less designs like Oss that use a relatively thin outer core to create turbulence without much backpressure. There are also 3D printed metal designs like Sig's new models that promise insanely intricate structures not machinable in any other way that could give performance never seen before, and radically different designs without expensive machining.
IMO the best depends on application. 22=serviceable baffles, pistol=serviceable baffles, rifle-welded tubeless, integral=monocore, but with new 3D printed and baffle-less designs improving, and people dumping money into the suppressor industry, that will probably change.
The middle finger. I pick the middle finger.Pretty much this^^^
It's like holding up three of your fingers and trying to pick the best finger of the three.
The middle finger. I pick the middle finger.
They all have their place, and benefits/ issues
Monocore- simple and easy to disassemble and clean, can just use round brushes from the side. Best for 22s and integrally suppressed centerfire where the outer tube can just slide off, and the stack is serviceable still attatched to the barrel(can be integral or welded on a short barre for 16" lengths). Downside in 22s is they can get stuck easy without a shield to keep the tube from getting fouled. More internal volume can mean good performance, but also more first round pop. Limited by machining tech to relatively simple shapes. There are some that are welded, IMO it negates the only real benefits the design has currently.
Serviceable baffle stack- works on everything, 22, pistol cal, and rifle cal. They are easily adapted to modular designs as the mount, cap, tube, and baffles are usually separate components. Cleaning and dissasembly can be simple or involved. Depending on design the baffles may be able to rotate and can cause a POI shift. You can have complex circular baffles for excellent performance, or tuned for suppression vs backpressure. They can click together to shield the outer tube from fouling, really good feature on 22s. Many of the downsides like complexity, stuck baffles, and unscrewing apart while shooting can be solved with good designs, but they still tend to be heavy with less internal volume. Some older designs were welded, but the welds can be removed from the tube, and it can be made serviceable in some cases.
Tubeless- using baffles without an outer tube cuts weight, and allows more internal volume, it can still be modular, especially with a serviceable can where baffles simply screw together in any length. The main issue is cleaning, where screw-together baffles have the outer finish on them, and can get beat up when cleaning. They also need to be either screwed together baffle by baffle, adding a lot of weight, complexity, and creating several spots that can come apart when shooting. Some 22s feature this design, but the vast majority are welded rifle-cal cans.
Welded vs serviceable is usually a matter of need, 22s NEED to be serviceable, as the round is filthy. High pressure rifle cals don't need to be serviceable as the muzzle blast keeps breaking up fouling keeping it from building up. Pistol cans can be either-or, cast bullets and light loads can get a can dirty, but generally FMJ and higher velocity stay pretty clean. The best feature of a welded can is that it doesn't come apart, can still have modular mounts and end caps, even modular sections, no shift in POI, only a point or two where it could come apart while shooting(or none with 1 piece can/ fixed mount). The worst feature is also that it can't come apart, so no easy cleaning, and if damaged, better chance of replacement or cutting/rewelding for repairs, not simply swapping components. There are also baffle-less designs like Oss that use a relatively thin outer core to create turbulence without much backpressure. There are also 3D printed metal designs like Sig's new models that promise insanely intricate structures not machinable in any other way that could give performance never seen before, and radically different designs without expensive machining.
IMO the best depends on application. 22=serviceable baffles, pistol=serviceable baffles, rifle-welded tubeless, integral=monocore, but with new 3D printed and baffle-less designs improving, and people dumping money into the suppressor industry, that will probably change.
Pretty much this^^^
It's like holding up three of your fingers and trying to pick the best finger of the three.
After thoroughly cleaning everything, I applied a ceramic brake lube to everything upon reassembly. Not a graphite, copper, or nickel based anti-seize mind you, since they all eat aluminum.
Dead Air does not sell any monocore products that I’m aware of. A Welded baffle stack (tubeless or not) is not the same thing as a monocore design. Probably the most popular company that specializes in monocore designs is Liberty. There are other companies that do it (many who weld the monocore in the tube so one wouldn’t necessarily notice it)
The two most common complaints with monocore designs are: more prone to first round pop, and somewhat lesser performance ceiling than more traditional baffle stack designs. Oh and they can be a pain in the rear to disassemble and clean. That said one of the 13 or 14 suppressors I own is a Liberty Cosmic, and it sounds pretty good. No major complaints, especially for what I paid for it.
The Griffin Optimus is a user serviceable suppressor with removable baffles. The Dead Air Wolfman is a sealed, tubeless design, as is the Nomad. The Sandman series is also considered sealed, but has an outer tube that the baffles are welded to.Maybe I’m using the wrong words then, I’m still new to these things. Example, dead air wolfman’s construction vs something like a griffin optimus 9. What does one refer to the dead air design vs the griffin?
Maybe I’m using the wrong words then, I’m still new to these things. Example, dead air wolfman’s construction vs something like a griffin optimus 9. What does one refer to the dead air design vs the griffin?