Best sub $1000 1911

[clandestine]

so S&W is your current rec. in the range then? any particular model?

Any model except a compact, or alloy framed model. Standard models can be had for $800 or so. The more exotic ones are about $1200.

 

[mikec]

The S&W 1911s are very nice. A work buddy has one, forget the model but I think it was an alloy gun. recoil wasn't that bad compared to a steel 5" Colt. I only put 30-50 rounds through it, but I liked it.

 

[Mt Airy]

So, if a shooters doesn't know how to properly grip a 1911 and their hold causes their thumb to hit the slide lock, that doesn't matter? Interesting.

Second, if the gun has been subjected to some home gunsmithing that doesn't count?

Third, I do know quality pistols. I own two Colts, one of which is in the 1911 porn thread. I have owned a Colt 1911 since about 1983. I have also had the opportunity to shoot some very nice Bullseye guns when I was involved at a club back home and would work formal matches and practice matches as a RO.

Finally, I defend RIA, mostly from you because you seem to think they are absolute garbage even when you ignore the comments from others who also own and shoot that gun.

Is the RIA and it's sisters the absolute best handgun out there? No, but they are far from garbage. For a good shooting gun, they shouldn't be discounted. If a client wasn't in a foolish labor dispute I would have ordered a Wilson for my birthday. However, rather than being foolish with $$, I am putting that purchase off until Spring.

If RIA is not garbage what is a lesser 1911? as far as Wilson now we are talking a very good QUALITY pistol !!! when i was looking i think I was considering the CQB . I don't think they make to many with adjustable sights and that was what I was looking for.

 

[clandestine]

If RIA is not garbage what is a lesser 1911? as far as Wilson now we are talking a very good QUALITY pistol !!! when i was looking i think I was considering the CQB . I don't think they make to many with adjustable sights and that was what I was looking for.

What first hand experience do you have that backs up your comments about current production RIA 1911's? How many 1911's have you customized and repaired?

 

[Mt Airy]

What first hand experience do you have that backs up your comments about current production RIA 1911's? How many 1911's have you customized and repaired?

Well I have been owning and shooting 1911s for the last 30 years I own three 1911 and I have seen many RIAs that do not function . As far as repair I do not pretend to be a gunsmith I pay for gunsmiths work. As far as experience I do know that you are about 35 years old so I bet I do have more experience behind the trigger than you. How many NRA classification cards do you carry? I carry one in High power rifle and pistol. so I have been around a range or two.
AS I have said before anyone can call any pistol smith any ask there opinion
try John Harrison , Dave severns, Bob Rodgers ,Wayne Novak,Jim clark, Al Marvel. These are real full time gunsmiths lets see if they will even work on a RIA . I don't think they will even look at one. They have plenty experience on working on 1911s and have built quite a few .

 

[clandestine]

Well I have been owning and shooting 1911s for the last 30 years I own three 1911 and I have seen many RIAs that do not function . As far as repair I do not pretend to be a gunsmith I pay for gunsmiths work. As far as experience I do know that you are about 35 years old so I bet I do have more experience behind the trigger than you. How many NRA classification cards do you carry? I carry one in High power rifle and pistol. so I have been around a range or two.
AS I have said before anyone can call any pistol smith any ask there opinion
try John Harrison , Dave severns, Bob Rodgers ,Wayne Novak,Jim clark, Al Marvel. These are real full time gunsmiths lets see if they will even work on a RIA . I don't think they will even look at one. They have plenty experience on working on 1911s and have built quite a few .

I would assume since you know Im away from smithing and did it part time you mean I have no skills. Thats cool, but I distinctly remember you calling me and talking to me about work YOU couldnt do to your 1911's. I can guarantee I have worked on and serviced/customized more 1911's that you have picked up in your entire life. I have likely fired hundreds of thousand of rounds testing firearms. Im not a competitor, Im a gunsmith. Theres a difference.

Since you ignored my post I made aboput this topic before Ill repost what I said before about this B.S. you throw around.

Shooting guns and repairing guns are TWO DIFFERENT things. You seem to think your age and years pulling a trigger means more experience with what works and what dont and you are wrong.

The Gunsmiths you named are CUSTOM Gunsmiths. Ill agree if Im doing a full out custom job or rebuild I prefer a Colt or Higher Priced gun. Colts and Higher end guns tend to take less time to custom fit aftermarket and oversized parts to. The major components on higher end guns polish and blue better as well. When an APG Gunsmith engraves their name on the gun the reworked theres a reputation to uphold. They dont want their names on budget guns to save face and they want to save labor time to have better profit margins. If they were all such "Masters" they would be able to make even a cheapie 1911 shine. Im not saying they are incompetent, if they were they wouldnt be where they are today. I have respect for them all (well except Rogers) They are running a business, not a charity and their time is money. I know from experience where the margins and losses are. The better the base gun the more profit to be made labor wise. When it comes down to brass tacks a CUSTOM 1911 built off a Host gun has nothing original in it anymore anyway except the Slide and Frame.

Then theres the logistics, the odds of somone calling up an APG 1911 Gunsmith and wanting 5K worth of custom work done to a RIA is SLIM to NONE, and none left town. When people actually look at what TRUE CUSTOM work costs for 1911's they rethink their options. Sure it may occasionally happen when someone has a RIA or other budget 1911 gun thats sentimental. For instance, if my Grandfather gave me a RIA and I wasnt a Gunsmith I would rather have that RIA customized than buy a NIB Colt that I have no attachment to.

Ill make this challenge to you. Ill take a Colt and an American Classic apart. Ill show you the insides of each slide while concealing the sides and makers marks. Ill show you the barrels while covering the markings. Ill show you the frame while covering the markings, and Ill show you the internals.

Ill bet you wont be able to tell the difference in WHO made the parts and likely think the American Classic Parts are the Colt ones.

I should take some pictures of the BRAND NEW railed Colt 1911 im working on. The ramp looks like a 3 year old with a dremel cut the ramp up. No one did anything to this gun, I SAW it come out of the box that way. It wont even feed 230 ball. The American Classic in Scotts Display Case? The ramp is polished and cut like one of the jobs that tool me 45 mins to do. Odd eh? Well its more common than you realize.


If I had a choice of a Colt or a RIA, I would pick the Colt to customize. Thats not a fair assessment to the average gun consumer because I can make it shine for free, the other guy has to pay someon like me ALOT to rework theirs. If I had 2 1911's (1 RIA, 1 Colt) that perform indetically I would prefer to have the one with better resale value, and of course the Colt will resell better when customized.

But yeah, what do I know?

 

[Indiana Jones]

DAMN. I love the mentality of "I've shot alot of guns". Well I've driven ALOT of cars, but I'll admit i dont know a damn thing about them and how to fix them. I go to honda53s for that. I've shot alot of machineguns, does that mean I can tell you exactly what's wrong with an mg42 that fails to fire? Nope. It's just futile mental masturbation. I'm not a clandestine nuthugger, he's actually done work for me, ON a 1911 and I've had other gunsmiths I know and trust who've seen and shot my pistol, tell me whoever did the said work did a really fine job. My take on the topic is simple, trigger time isn't shit compared to bench time...which I have none of. This is like going to a fight and saying to the guy who lost, "you shoulda done..etc".

 

[Enzo_Guy]

DAMN. I love the mentality of "I've shot alot of guns". Well I've driven ALOT of cars, but I'll admit i dont know a damn thing about them and how to fix them. I go to honda53s for that. I've shot alot of machineguns, does that mean I can tell you exactly what's wrong with an mg42 that fails to fire? Nope. It's just futile mental masturbation. I'm not a clandestine nuthugger, he's actually done work for me, ON a 1911 and I've had other gunsmiths I know and trust who've seen and shot my pistol, tell me whoever did the said work did a really fine job. My take on the topic is simple, trigger time isn't shit compared to bench time...which I have none of. This is like going to a fight and saying to the guy who lost, "you shoulda done..etc".

I'd have to agree with you, I've used a lot of computers but they still go to Best Buy when they break.

As for this whole 1911 debate, I wouldn't mind having a Rock Island. I buy guns to shoot them, not look at them. If my RIA doesn't shoot straight out of the box I can pay a gunsmith to fix it. If I buy a Colt and it doesn't shoot straight out of the box I can call Colt, who will likely deny my warranty as I have seen them do before, and then wish I could send it to a gunsmith but instead I have no money left and I now have a fancy paperweight.

Every company makes a couple junk ones. I used to work in the service department of a Lexus dealership in 2008, when they had been making the most reliable cars for 10 years or something like that. We still did warranty work, only the stuff we didn't cover the people were really pissed and said they had wished they bought a Honda because then they could afford to fix it. Hell, we even had a guy who had a 1 week old IS250 come back in and his GPS was reading he was in the middle of the Chesapeake Bay! Everyone makes a junker once in a while, the difference is do you have the money to fix it?

Would I take a Rock Island? Yes. Would I take a Colt or Kimber? As long as Mtairy Biker buying it for me.

 

[O'Shoot]

My RIA works extremely well, always goes bang. It hits what I aim at. I also like Kimber, she works down at the bakery, a pretty girl too I might add.

 

[mikec]

I will say this, Mtairy Biker's comments are one reason some name gunsmiths will not work on a RIA or other "lessor" name gun for custom work. I had my 5" Colt customized and because it says Colt someone like Mtairy Biker will be more likely to buy it than if it was a RIA custom, even if gunsmith X or Y built it. He thinks it has to say Colt or SA to be good.

Mtairy Biker reminds me of some folks who think they have to buy a BMW or Mercedes to get a good car, despite what the JD Powers reviews say.

 

[mdshooterguy2820]

I make recomendations on things that currently work best out of the box for the price. If you had $500 more I would say get a Les Baer.
A S&W is better than and factory line built (Non Custom) Kimber, Colt, or S.A.

As time changes Ill modify my opinion as companies improve or slack off. Im not a fan of any company, I just call em like I see em.

Currently Colts, Kimbers, and Springers are not as good and flawless out of the box as people want to think or believe. I really wish people could see what I have instead of being blindless fanboys and buying into Gun Magazine Propaganda.

Im just relaying what I see as a Gunsmith. Most people dont listen anyway.

I disagree. Since my first handgun purchase and joining this site, I've searched out your opinions on here. I was "convinced" to buy a .40 by users instead of insiders. I make decisions for myself and others based on my experience in my professions (not the professional users, but the professionals that repair). Don't mean to sound like a suck up, but I always trust those that know the inner workings of anything over those that know how to use it a lot.

 

[Punch_master]

Go over to 1911forum.com and read the threads in the manufacture's section covering RIA. Well over 50% of them are about "My rock island broke today, Gee I hope they have good customer service, Does anyone have their contact info?" and the rest are about "My RIA won't (Take your pick of FT Feed, FT Eject, FT Fire or just plain Failure to do anything) can someone tell me what's wrong with it?" In all the years I've been shooting I've only seen five of these potential paperweights brought to the shooting line and I've seen the owner of each one have nothing but problems with literally EVERY one of them. I have yet to see even ONE that ran consistently. Personally I wouldn't care if they reduced their price to $250.00 I'd never stake my life on a RIA going bang everytime I wanted it to. I've seen too many of them fail and from what I've read on other forums I'd say Mt Airy biker pretty much nailed it.

 

[Enzo_Guy]

Go over to 1911forum.com and read the threads in the manufacture's section covering RIA. Well over 50% of them are about "My rock island broke today, Gee I hope they have good customer service, Does anyone have their contact info?" and the rest are about "My RIA won't (Take your pick of FT Feed, FT Eject, FT Fire or just plain Failure to do anything) can someone tell me what's wrong with it?" In all the years I've been shooting I've only seen five of these potential paperweights brought to the shooting line and I've seen the owner have nothing but problems with literally EVERY one of them. I have yet to see even ONE that ran consistently. Personally I wouldn't care if they reduced their price to $250.00 I'd never stake my life on a RIA going bang everytime I wanted it to. I've seen too many of them fail and from what I've read on other forums I'd say Mt Airy biker pretty much nailed it.

Well yeah on the forum half the people are going to be asking how to fix a gun, that's what a forum is for. I don't go on the Charles Daly forum just to say, "I really like my shotgun, I have nothing else to say."

 

[Punch_master]

Well yeah on the forum half the people are going to be asking how to fix a gun, that's what a forum is for. I don't go on the Charles Daly forum just to say, "I really like my shotgun, I have nothing else to say."

Go look at the Les Baer or the wilson forum sometime then. Heck even the Kimber forum has less percentage of complaints than the RIA section. It's pitiful reading all of them.

 

[Freedom]

I was speaking to a SWAT guy from Denver. They had problems with some of their Kimbers and was told by Kimber they only warranted their pistols for 5 brands/types of ammunition. They won't be buying Kimbers anymore. At Gunsite back in April out of over 20 1911's used, only two had multiple malfunctions, the RIA and customized Colt for bullseye. While I love my Baer, I too am in the market for another 1911 in Commander size for less than $1000. I'm leaning toward the S&W.

I picked up a 1911 Colt Commander XSE stainless earlier this year for about $900. After well over a thousand rounds, I can say I really love this gun. Very accurate, comfortable to shoot (eats anything), totally reliable (the two failures to feed were magazine related), nice crisp trigger and it's very pretty.

 

[wlc]

just buy one of these and be done with it

 

[clandestine]

I disagree. Since my first handgun purchase and joining this site, I've searched out your opinions on here. I was "convinced" to buy a .40 by users instead of insiders. I make decisions for myself and others based on my experience in my professions (not the professional users, but the professionals that repair). Don't mean to sound like a suck up, but I always trust those that know the inner workings of anything over those that know how to use it a lot.

I sincerely appreciate that. I just want people to make good decisions.

 

[clandestine]

Well yeah on the forum half the people are going to be asking how to fix a gun, that's what a forum is for. I don't go on the Charles Daly forum just to say, "I really like my shotgun, I have nothing else to say."

We also dont know if the users cleaned the preservative out of the gun, or what kind of lube they are running.

We dont know if they had a stockpile of crappy mags they are using besides the factory mag.

Do we know if the rounds are handloads (Yes, some handloaders simply suck at what they do)?

Do we know if any parts were replaced improperly? Lots of people buy 1911's and begin throwing parts into the gun without knowing if it even works.

Some are foolish to do it right before a Pistol or Carbine class and have ABSOLUTELY no clue to what they are doing. Im not talking about inexperienced shooters either. There are people that have been shooting a LONG time. Oddly these experienced people are about to take a Vickers, Rogers, or Magpul class...............so what do they do? They buy a brownells box full of premium Ejectors, Extractors, Magazine Catches, Sights, FCG's, Firing Pin Retainer Plates, Links, Slide Stops................and they dont have the proper tool or knowledge to fit the parts properly. They dont have a range to test the work on. Many aftermarket 1911 Parts ARE NOT drop in, and when these "experienced" owners fit them they do it improprely. Guess what happens..........their gun malfunctions non stop. I have had these people come into the shop I worked at, FURIOUS that their gun that WORKED FINE before shit the bed in an expensive pistol class. They call the gun a piece of crap and get pissed at ME. Why they get mad at me when I didnt work on or sold them the problem gun, blows my mind. When I correct them on why the gun failed they go thermonuclear and say that "I" should shut my mouth and that I dont know because Im a young punk (Yet they are talking to the young punk because they couldnt figure out the problem)

Wanna know why they replace all of these parts? Experts on the internet who have very limited gunsmithing experience or are regurgitating what they read from someone else on the internet, or some gunshop counter guy who has no idea of what they are doing. NO DIRECT EXPERIENCE!

Like I said before I know ost people dont want to hear what I have to say. Hopefully my advice gets through to a few people who really want the most for their money and want something that works best for their needs. Not everyone needs a $1700 Baer, or $5000 custom C&S 1911, but some people want more. I give advice based on peoples needs and budgets.

Im betting the experts here cant find one post from me thst say that Baers, Wilson, Nighthawks, or Browns are worthless. Wanna know why? Because they ARE worth it, anyhing over what those guys ask is just fluff IMHO, your paying for Checkering, Machinging, Engraving, and Custom Features.....it wont shoot by itself or make you win a gunfight or match.

The models I trash most are the ones like Kimber, Colt, SIG, and S.A. who dont build guns any better than many of the budget guns I say are good beginner guns. Guess what they guys who argue with me own?

I see more Colts, Kimbers, SIGs. and Springfield Armory 1911's individually for issues than AMerican Classics and RIA's. If people are worried about a RIA or American Classic just buy it from a shop with a Smith that will fix any issues. The only issues I have ever seen are some need for ramp work and possibly tning an extractor. Were not talking about broken parts here. If you dished out $1200 on a "Mid Grade" Kimber and it needed the same work to run as a RIA for half, whats the better deal when they shoot the same groups?

 

[BigMBobbyOP]

We also dont know if the users cleaned the preservative out of the gun, or what kind of lube they are running.

I have had these people come into the shop I worked at FURIOUS that their gun that WORKED FINE before shit the bed in an expensive pistol class. They call the gun a piece of crap and get pissed at ME. Whay they get mad at me when not one was a gun I worked on or sold them blows my mind. When I correct them on why the gun failed they go thermonuclear and say that "I" should shut my mouth and that I dont know because Im a young punk (Yet they are talking to the young punk because they couldnt figure out the problem)

You sound like my buddy who is a service manager at a car dealership! He calls me about the exact same frustrations. Welcome to the world of customer service - there is no explaining/curing peoples nonsensical asshatery

 

[sixfivesavage]

All this talk is certainly making me feel better about buying that Nighthawk back in April. I've gone through a bunch of crap tying to get it and it still isn't here. I actually posted it for sale because I'm sick of dealing with it all, but now I'm gonna take the ad down. I know I will be happy as a pig in mud with it whenever it does show up. I'm just glad I'm not the only one who understands why someone would pay that kinda money for a pistol.