Bill (DE SB2) would require training, permit to buy handguns

[cmb]

Delaware Democratic leaders have introduced a bill to require residents to complete a firearm training course and obtain a permit before purchasing a handgun.

Senate Majority Whip Elizabeth Lockman, D-Wilmington west, and House Majority Whip Melissa Minor-Brown, D-New Castle, introduced Senate Bill 2 on April 19. If signed into law, the bill would add Delaware to a growing list of states that require training and a permit prior to buying a handgun.

Under SB2, most Delawareans could obtain a permit to purchase a handgun if they have completed an approved firearm training course in the last five years. Qualified law enforcement officers, qualified retired law enforcement officers and anyone permitted to carry a concealed deadly weapon would be exempt because they already have been required to complete training.

Here's a new wrinkle;

One notable change included in SB2 is a requirement that the Delaware Department of Safety and Homeland Security provide vouchers to cover the full cost of firearm training for anyone whose household earns less than 200% of the federal poverty guideline.

“In 2021, we heard opponents argue again and again that the training requirement would create an undue financial burden for Delawareans living in low-income communities to obtain a handgun,” Lockman said in a press release. “The legislation I introduced today settles that debate by making access to a gun safety course absolutely free for anyone struggling to get by.”

Basically, they were caught/exposed but fear not!

“This legislation echoes the racist, old, tried and true gun control schemes of southern Democrats after the Civil War whose only goal was to keep guns out of the hands of those they wished to control,” the association posted on its Facebook page. “This legislation adds costs, barriers, restrictions and asking for permission to protect your family while violating multiple constitutional rights. There are so many issues with this legislation, but rest assured, DSSA will fight it at Legislative Hall and beyond.”

SB2 is slated to be heard by the Senate Judiciary Committee Wednesday, April 26.

Bill would require training, permit to buy handguns

Delaware Democratic leaders have introduced a bill to require residents to complete a firearm training course and obtain a permit before purchasing a handgun. Senate Majority Whip Elizabeth Lockman, D-Wilmington west, and House Majority Whip Melissa...

www.capegazette.com

"Democratic leaders" from the Democrat party, that's a good one!

 

[Mightydog]

Love the fact that there’s a “voucher” program for low income people who can’t afford the fingerprinting and other fees to be able to buy the firearm they obviously can’t afford”.

 

[Troublesbrewin]

I believe those running for political office should be forced to get training and a permit, maybe it should apply to VOTING it is an extremely dangerous weapon. Vouchered of course.

 

[adit]

From DSSA:

ACTION ALERT​ House Hearing Senate Bill 2, Permit to Purchase Wednesday, May 17, 11:00 a.m. House Chamber​

WE ARE DONE BEING POLITE IT’S TRUTH TIME Senate Substitute #1 for Senate Bill 2​ The “Permit-to-Purchase Bill”, Senate Substitute #1 for Senate Bill 2 (SS #1 for SB 2), was rammed through the Senate in one (1) day and is now pending in the House. It will cost the Delaware taxpayers in excess of $20 Million. The sponsors have admitted that it will do very little if anything to curb violence or keep guns out of the hands of the gang-bangers. The bill’s Prime Sponsor, Senator Lockman, has as much as admitted that it is intended to create a handgun registration scheme that will set the stage for eventual confiscation. But what they have not admitted is that SS #1 for SB 2 is at once both sexist and racist.​ If you are a woman in need of a handgun for self-protection from an abusive spouse or boyfriend, you don’t have time to find a course you can afford, take the course required, then submit an application to the Secretary of Safety and Homeland Security for a permit to buy a gun – a process that could take weeks – and then find a gun you can afford and then become proficient with that gun – by that time your abusive husband has already killed you and maybe even your children – and by the way – how do you take a gun course when you don’t have a gun? SS #1 For SB 2 is sexist because it makes it nearly impossible for a domestic abuse victim to protect herself and her children. “A Right delayed is a Right Denied” In this case, a right delayed could be fatal.​ SS#1 for SB 2 is racist – it smacks of Jim Crow, and looks very much like what the Klan would have proposed “back in the day” – “gotta make it harder and more expensive – gotta keep ‘them’ from getting guns” – Sound familiar? Remember your history – one of the purposes of the 14th Amendment was to ensure the rights of the freed slaves and to keep the States – mostly southern – from denying the freed slaves their constitutional rights – including, and especially, the right to keep and bear arms under the Second Amendment. SS#1 for SB 2, makes the process of obtaining a firearm legally both time consuming and expensive – which hurts people of color (especially Black and Brown) and others of limited time and money the most – the very people who are most likely to be victims of violent crime. To be blunt – the Democrats were behind Jim Crow, led the fight against true independence for the freed slave, led the way on keeping guns out of the hands of the freed slave – and they are doing it again with SS#1 for SB2. SS#1 for SB 2 will cost over $20 Million dollars - $20 Million that should be spent on jobs, housing, schools, mental health, inner-city infrastructure, transportation and all of the other things that will make our communities safer and a better place to live – all the things that would help both single moms and the economically depressed black and brown people of our State. That’s $20 Million that should have been spent long ago implementing the CDC plan for the City of Wilmington, but was not. CALL TO ACTION Find Your State Representative Here​ Call your State Representative today and tell them to vote “No” on Senate Substitute #1 for Senate Bill 2. Tell your State Representative SS#1 for SB 2 is sexist because it hurts women in need of protection. Tell your State Representative that SS#1 for SB 2 is racist because it hurts the poor black and brown people of this State, depriving them of the ability to protect themselves and their families from the marauding drug gangs that prowl their neighborhoods. Tell them that it is irresponsible to spend $20 Million on gun control that would be better spent implementing the CDC plan for jobs, education, housing and a better way of life. Tell your State Representative to vote “NO” on Senate Substitute 1 for Senate Bill 2. Call Today – Time is of the Essence They rammed SS#1 for SB 2 through the Senate in one (1) day without public comment. If you let them, they will do the same thing in the House​ Hope to see you there. A copy of the bill is attached. Senate Bill 2​

 

[adit]

It made its way out of the House Judiciary committee yesterday.

Not sure when the whole House will vote on it. Probably will wait until Friday June 30 (DE's Sine Die) when no one is paying attention.

https://legis.delaware.gov/MeetingNotice/33085

Bill Detail - Delaware General Assembly

 

[rgdguns]

On the upside, if passed with the training valture they are admitting that the 2a is a right that qualifies for government substudy. Much like housing, cable tv, internet, and cell phones, and healthcare it should qualify for ongoing substudys ( free or reduced guns and a monthly allotment of ammo)

 

[Mark75H]

Would I have to get a Delaware drivers license or could I get my allotment of ammo just for owning property in Delaware?

 

[adit]

I think y'all been smoking too much of that "Delaware Recreational" if you believe you're getting something 2A related for free......

 

[adit]

This died on the vine. So no DE HQL.

It'll be back next year unless SCOTUS makes a move.

 

[DEVE]

This died on the vine. So no DE HQL.

It'll be back next year unless SCOTUS makes a move.

Awesome.
Hope they give up though.

 

[Magerko]

Hope this extends into DE and all other states in the U.S. A Federal Appeals Court for the 4th circuit just TODAY ruled that Maryland's HQL permit requirement to purchase or own a gun is UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

This is already Huge, but if it withstands any appeal attempts, it will be MEGA Huge. I don't think MD's AG wants this to go to SCOTUS, since the 3 - 4th circuit Federal Judges who made this ruling quoted the Supreme Courts directives via their Bruen decision and said that MD's argument fails the "Bruen Test".

 

[delaware_export]

Is Delaware the 3rd curcuit? Not 4th? So it may take a while, and legal challenges

of course with the Maryland appeal coming, will a circuit split happen after the after the appeal overturns todays ruling? Will scotus take it If it does?

 

[Magerko]

Is Delaware the 3rd curcuit? Not 4th? So it may take a while, and legal challenges

of course with the Maryland appeal coming, will a circuit split happen after the after the appeal overturns todays ruling? Will scotus take it If it does?

From what I understand and what's been reported on the video's I've watched so far, the MD AG's only option may be to appeal to SCOTUS. I'm not a lawyer so not sure if there's any other in-between steps they can take, but it was a Federal Appeals Court, not a district court, that declared the HQL permit scheme as unconstitutional. I can't think of any courts that would be higher than the Federal Appeals Court other than SCOTUS, but I can't say for sure as legal stuff just bores the hell out of me.

But if MD's AG does appeal to SCOTUS, he may be rolling dangerous dice, as it was the SCOTUS Bruen decision that the Federal Judges used to rule MD's HQL permit as Unconstitutional. SCOTUS ruled that all states need to follow the "Bruen Test". I've also heard that there were other legal challenges that states lost due to being ruled unconstitutional, and Governors of other states were calling the Governors of the state that lost, urging them NOT to appeal. They didn't want these cases appealed up to SCOTUS, because if SCOTUS ruled in our favor, and not theirs, it would ripple nationwide throughout all the states. It kinda sounds like those Governors were telling the losing Governor to take the loss and keep quiet, don't appeal and make a mess for all the other states.

 

[Mark75H]

No, MD can ask the Appeals Court to rehear the argument in full court rather than the 3 judge panel that originally heard it "en banc"

 

[Magerko]

No, MD can ask the Appeals Court to rehear the argument in full court rather than the 3 judge panel that originally heard it "en banc"

Would that be the same Federal Court where the en banc judges are located? Just thinking out loud, but if the 3-judge panel ruled that the HQL permit scheme was unconstitutional and specifically referenced the SCOTUS Bruen ruling in their decision, just wondering how a full Appeals court would be able to try to make a legitimate argument to overturn the en banc panel's decision.

Based on the SCOTUS Bruen decision, all courts in the U.S. were instructed by SCOTUS to follow their Bruen decision by using what they call the "Bruen Test". Just thinking that it either follows the SCOTUS ruling or it doesn't, so wondering if a full court would make any difference, even if they have Judges that lean left.

If they vote to go against the SCOTUS ruling, it will be pretty evident and plain for all to see that they're going against the constitution. Of course, they may not care, but they did take an oath to uphold the constitution, so there's that.

 

[adit]

Hope this extends into DE and all other states in the U.S. A Federal Appeals Court for the 4th circuit just TODAY ruled that Maryland's HQL permit requirement to purchase or own a gun is UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

This is already Huge, but if it withstands any appeal attempts, it will be MEGA Huge. I don't think MD's AG wants this to go to SCOTUS, since the 3 - 4th circuit Federal Judges who made this ruling quoted the Supreme Courts directives via their Bruen decision and said that MD's argument fails the "Bruen Test".

The MD action in the 4th Circuit has no legal bearing on DE. As I stated above, there is no "HQL" type law on the books in DE currently. They tried this past year and failed.

There have been rumors that it was planned to be refiled in 2024. While the results of the MD action have no legal bearing on DE, it could possibly cause the DE Leg to pause the submittal of the bill until more is heard from MD/4th Circuit/SCOTUS.

Is Delaware the 3rd curcuit? Not 4th? So it may take a while, and legal challenges

of course with the Maryland appeal coming, will a circuit split happen after the after the appeal overturns todays ruling? Will scotus take it If it does?

Yes, 3rd Circuit.

 

[Magerko]

The MD action in the 4th Circuit has no legal bearing on DE. As I stated above, there is no "HQL" type law on the books in DE currently. They tried this past year and failed.

There have been rumors that it was planned to be refiled in 2024. While the results of the MD action have no legal bearing on DE, it could possibly cause the DE Leg to pause the submittal of the bill until more is heard from MD/4th Circuit/SCOTUS.



Yes, 3rd Circuit.

Agreed, I think it's more of a case that the MD decision might set a precedent that may start expanding to other states. And if it goes up to SCOTUS on appeal and we get a favorable SCOTUS ruling, then that would benefit us all. Sometimes, we just need the first domino to fall to get some momentum going.

It's just crazy that every state seems to have different "laws", I'm surprise that they don't require us to go to law school to get a CCW, as it's getting pretty difficult trying to keep up with all these "laws" and nuances in different states.

BTW, wife and I love DE. We used to have a 2nd home down near Rehoboth and Millsboro, used to travel down to DE every weekend for 10 years and actually got married on Fenwick Island beach. I can't buy mags larger than 10 rds in MD, but down in DE, I can get 17rd mags for my Tacops. Silly "law" in MD that does nothing except give a lot of MD gun owners a ton of grief.

 

[rbird7282]

Would that be the same Federal Court where the en banc judges are located? Just thinking out loud, but if the 3-judge panel ruled that the HQL permit scheme was unconstitutional and specifically referenced the SCOTUS Bruen ruling in their decision, just wondering how a full Appeals court would be able to try to make a legitimate argument to overturn the en banc panel's decision.

Based on the SCOTUS Bruen decision, all courts in the U.S. were instructed by SCOTUS to follow their Bruen decision by using what they call the "Bruen Test". Just thinking that it either follows the SCOTUS ruling or it doesn't, so wondering if a full court would make any difference, even if they have Judges that lean left.

If they vote to go against the SCOTUS ruling, it will be pretty evident and plain for all to see that they're going against the constitution. Of course, they may not care, but they did take an oath to uphold the constitution, so there's that.

They took an oath? Much like a contract, an oath is only as good as the person taking it.
Plenty of judges have ruled against the 2A since Bruen because they hate the 2nd Amendment and refuse to do their job in an unbiased manner.
Wouldn’t surprise me at all if it goes before the full court and they rule against us.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[adit]

Agreed, I think it's more of a case that the MD decision might set a precedent that may start expanding to other states. And if it goes up to SCOTUS on appeal and we get a favorable SCOTUS ruling, then that would benefit us all. Sometimes, we just need the first domino to fall to get some momentum going.

It's just crazy that every state seems to have different "laws", I'm surprise that they don't require us to go to law school to get a CCW, as it's getting pretty difficult trying to keep up with all these "laws" and nuances in different states.

BTW, wife and I love DE. We used to have a 2nd home down near Rehoboth and Millsboro, used to travel down to DE every weekend for 10 years and actually got married on Fenwick Island beach. I can't buy mags larger than 10 rds in MD, but down in DE, I can get 17rd mags for my Tacops. Silly "law" in MD that does nothing except give a lot of MD gun owners a ton of grief.

The precedent already exists in the other 40-45+ other states that never had a HQL-type law in the first place.

Bruen is the only reason we are getting 2A relief these days. A few other cases prior were the appetizers, but Clarence Thomas truly gave us back our 2nd Amendment with his opinion in that case.

 

[Tarponbeach]

"Delaware Democratic leaders have..." The words "Democratic" and "Leaders" should never be used in the same sentence.