Break it in dry?

[clandestine]

This makes sense w/ light oil. It locking up is what I was worried about when listening to him, just what I would need, a stuck live round when the RSO calls cease fire. I think this year alone I witnessed this about half a dozen times w/ an AR. Only once did I look and saw the bolt pretty dry. Offered some spray oil and the guy declined.

Those of you here comparing an AR to an engine, I don't quite think that is a valid analogy.

To be fair, I use the engine analogy in regards to firearms as well. I believe they are comparible.

Here is my engine analogy.

If I can trust my engine to motor oil, my gun will be just fine using it as well.

One thing that I have taught for a long time is a maintenance schedule for guns just like a vehicle. I only clean at a certain round count, or if the gun starts having function problems. Ill also clean if the gun is exposed to excessive contaminents or salt water.

LOTS of shooters clean their gun after each trip to the range. Unless people are shooting corrosive ammo or blackpowder, its doing nothing positive for the firearm by cleaning it after each trip to the range. If anything, it is accelerating wear. Tools, steel/bronze brushes, scrapers, can cause damage. Some cleaners can corrode and etch the metal as well. Then there is the human element where parts can be damaged by improper removal and assembly.

I also do not clean my bores until accuracy drops off. Its not necessary unless the ammo is BP or corrosive.

Cleaning a gun after wach trip to the range is like changing a cars oil after each trip to work or the store.

Maintenance schedules will prolong a firearms life. Over cleaning each time its shot will not.

Thus my engine analogy.

 

[Pinecone]

Actually a number of car manufacturers run their engines initially without lube. To wear in the rough surfaces faster.

Not long, IIRC something like 10 minutes or less.

BMW for one does this.

If I were to do this with an AR, it would be for more like 20 rounds, not 200.

 

[BradMacc82]

Actually a number of car manufacturers run their engines initially without lube. To wear in the rough surfaces faster.

Not long, IIRC something like 10 minutes or less.

BMW for one does this.

If I were to do this with an AR, it would be for more like 20 rounds, not 200.

They may not be using quarts of oil in the engine for functionality testing, but there is still assembly lube on the bearing surfaces and rings. So in theory, it's a 'dry run-in', but there is still some lubricant in the critical areas.

 

[Name Taken]

Everyone always knows better then the company who spent how many millions to design and operate under certain conditions. I don't get it.

Why would _____ lie about the best way to use their product? I don't own a firearm that calls for no lube. The guys making it certainly don't say fire it for 200 rounds then lube it.

 

[smokey]

Actually a number of car manufacturers run their engines initially without lube. To wear in the rough surfaces faster.

Not long, IIRC something like 10 minutes or less.

BMW for one does this.

If I were to do this with an AR, it would be for more like 20 rounds, not 200.

Do the engines consist of an aluminum anodized cylinder and a steel piston?

 

[Melnic]

Everyone always knows better then the company who spent how many millions to design and operate under certain conditions. I don't get it.

Why would _____ lie about the best way to use their product? I don't own a firearm that calls for no lube. The guys making it certainly don't say fire it for 200 rounds then lube it.

I'll be the devils advocate on this statement above.
Speaking from someone who writes specs or tells someone to write specs, I can tell you this. We often find we must write instructions so that things are easy to do. I have seen often I will buy a component and the manufacturer will admit that they will say Do 1, 2 and 3. Even if they know that you can do A, B, C and D and get better performance, they won't tell you it if A,B, C and D are more complicated or there is a greater chance to screw it up.

I once did RC Air combat and we had to have very high RPM performing engines. Anyone who followed the recommended break in instructions could not get the necessary performance to win matches. Some guys spend time working on a break in procedure to optimize the performance of a particular brand of engines. Once developed, it worked like a charm.

My point is that sometimes innovation comes from the users and not the manufacturers.

Based on the advice, I won't be running my new parts dry though. I'm not sold on it. I like the idea of light oil at the beginning. That's how my Jetski is. I had to change the oil at about 5hours.

 

[Duck]

Lube Please, when I was new the the ar I bought a box of Tubbs conditioning ammo. Follow directions on box no problems. After the final cleaning and wiping excessive oil I ran a mag of rem. and mag or 2 of wolf and had a stovepipe jam. That got my attention. Cleared it went home. After some research,Md. Shooters and friends it was determined to have been caused by lack of lubrication. I keep it "wet" and have not had any more problems. Good luck

 

[outrider58]

At least spit on it a little! Laud have moicy!

 

[Wheaton Hills Sportsman]

I agree that a light layer of oil that is wiped off is still a lubricating layer of oil, that is how I shoot most of my rifles and pistols, I shoot the AR with moly lube grease or Rig [Do they still make Rig, or am I still just running off old supplies?]. I would not apply a degreaser and then shoot the rifle, I do not suspect 200 rounds like that would do much damage to an AR, but it sounds like a bad habit to get into.

 

[dist1646]

I think it is a great idea to not lube a rifle that you spent hundreds if not thousands of dollars on! The immediate acceleration of wear does wonders for accuracy and reliability!

I use the proper lube for all of my guns. I'm just not a believer in drowning them in lube, the way some people do.

 

[bkuether]

I started using the Chad lube method, and everything he says is true. My latest AR BCG barely has a wear mark on it after 200+ rounds. Still locks up nice and tight. Never has had mis-feed mis-fire or any other issues. Oh wait, hold on... Yeah once two months ago, it hit the 9/10 ring instead of just the 10. I almost sent it back to Del Ton.....

Seriously. Lube that thing. And don't clean it after every range trip. Use your cleaning opportunity as an inspection and re-lube.

I typically re-apply some grease on the wear spots, and a drop or two of oil in the BCG lube holes.

And per Chad, the lubrication displaces the carbon. I only take carbon off of the boat tail. Thats it.

 

[GunnerGunz]

And I thought this thread had something to do with women...

 

[DaemonAssassin]

OK,
So, I had a conversation with a guy that I did not previously know and he said, he broke his 2 ARs in dry for 2 hundred rounds to "burnish" the metal and smooth out the contact surfaces. He said it also would show where the contact points are to better lube once he broke it in. He said, yes, expect some problems but just to work though it. He said he works with alot of mechanical moving machines at work. I did not argue to the contrary with him cause I had no idea if this was good or bad but though I'd bring it up with the more experienced to see if there was any validity to the method.

Curious on opinions on this. I might be worried about the bolt sticking or having trouble fully locking while dry.

Think of it like dry humping. Nothing good ever comes from it.

 

[Florida_11B]

I have actually met SOC Snipers that do not clean their rifles but every 200 rounds and others that clean every 5 for the first 200. Obviously if the rifle loses accuracy during that time they just turn it in and it goes to the repair facility. moral of the story they don't have to pay for their rifle and we spend a lot of money one some of our toys. With that being said i don't think you should over oil because that will attract dirt, dust, debris, and too much smoke when you fire but a thin coat of oil is good because it helps everything function properly i.e. Return to battery and prevent failure to extract and as others have said it helps polish those important surfaces. Additionally think about the rapid temperature change that'll occur when you fire. Metal will expand and contract and if you don't have proper heat displacement you might run the slight chance that the metal will not contract when it cools down. Just my opinion.

 

[DaemonAssassin]

I have actually met SOC Snipers that do not clean their rifles but every 200 rounds and others that clean every 5 for the first 200. Obviously if the rifle loses accuracy during that time they just turn it in and it goes to the repair facility. moral of the story they don't have to pay for their rifle and we spend a lot of money one some of our toys.

With that being said i don't think you should over oil because that will attract dirt, dust, debris, and too much smoke when you fire but a thin coat of oil is good because it helps everything function properly i.e. Return to battery and prevent failure to extract and as others have said it helps polish those important surfaces. Additionally think about the rapid temperature change that'll occur when you fire. Metal will expand and contract and if you don't have proper heat displacement you might run the slight chance that the metal will not contract when it cools down. Just my opinion.

Well your second paragraph contradicted itself. Shouldn't over oil because it will attract all that stuff, but then you say metals will expand an contract due to heat and cold and if you don't have proper heat displacement (the lubricant, bro....) you may run a chance of it not contracting when it cools down.

In your opinion, which one is it? Run it wet, so it will self limit with dust, fouling, all the other fun debris and cooling, or is it run dryer, so that it won't smoke and collect gunk but will generate a bunch of friction and heat?

If you run it wet, you will allow the weapon to move fouling where it needs too, in addition to enough lube being in the weapon to allow the buildup of heat to be diminished. Moving parts create a ton of friction, friction makes heat. Heat is bad for a firearm. Use enough lube to keep the friction to a minimum.

An add on question for you. Should I be using Mobil 1 Synthetic 5w-20 and KY for my firearms, or should I be using something else? What lube do you use?

 

[mopar92]

Actually a number of car manufacturers run their engines initially without lube. To wear in the rough surfaces faster.

Not long, IIRC something like 10 minutes or less.

BMW for one does this.

If I were to do this with an AR, it would be for more like 20 rounds, not 200.

This could explain why I see so many BMW's with oil consumption issues.

 

[DaemonAssassin]

This could explain why I see so many BMW's with oil consumption issues.

They run it for 10 minutes on Nuremberg Ring, to break it in. They're Germans after all.

 

[smokey]

I have actually met SOC Snipers that do not clean their rifles but every 200 rounds and others that clean every 5 for the first 200. Obviously if the rifle loses accuracy during that time they just turn it in and it goes to the repair facility. moral of the story they don't have to pay for their rifle and we spend a lot of money one some of our toys. With that being said i don't think you should over oil because that will attract dirt, dust, debris, and too much smoke when you fire but a thin coat of oil is good because it helps everything function properly i.e. Return to battery and prevent failure to extract and as others have said it helps polish those important surfaces. Additionally think about the rapid temperature change that'll occur when you fire. Metal will expand and contract and if you don't have proper heat displacement you might run the slight chance that the metal will not contract when it cools down. Just my opinion.

Science is shaking its head at this post.

 

[omegared24]

This could explain why I see so many BMW's with oil consumption issues.

Something doesn't sound right with running an engine without lube. Until I see a reputable source I say it's BS.

 

[Florida_11B]

Well your second paragraph contradicted itself. Shouldn't over oil because it will attract all that stuff, but then you say metals will expand an contract due to heat and cold and if you don't have proper heat displacement (the lubricant, bro....) you may run a chance of it not contracting when it cools down.

In your opinion, which one is it? Run it wet, so it will self limit with dust, fouling, all the other fun debris and cooling, or is it run dryer, so that it won't smoke and collect gunk but will generate a bunch of friction and heat?

If you run it wet, you will allow the weapon to move fouling where it needs too, in addition to enough lube being in the weapon to allow the buildup of heat to be diminished. Moving parts create a ton of friction, friction makes heat. Heat is bad for a firearm. Use enough lube to keep the friction to a minimum.

An add on question for you. Should I be using Mobil 1 Synthetic 5w-20 and KY for my firearms, or should I be using something else? What lube do you use?

My first paragraph was stating that i have seen guys do both. I think I am trying to say the same thing you are just not as direct. I don't think you should run it bone dry i run my personal firearms with a light coat of CLP out of a spray can and that is it. I have heard of people using motor oil for their personal weapons and at one point i saw a guy put generator oil on his SAW and it worked. who knows what damage it did to the weapon itself but it worked. I don't have a degree is meteorology. Sorry. btw Stick with the Ky its probably lying around the house and it is dual purpose.