Calls for "Common Sense Gun Control" - no real surprise

[ted76]

I want Common Sense Criminal Control laws implemented NOW!

1. Criminal steals something from someone else, he has to buy a new replacement for the item he stole, and spends 1 day in jail for every $100 dollar worth of theft.

2. Criminal seriously injures someone by battery or assault, 100 days minimum in jail, with penalty of 1 day for every dollar in medical costs incurred by the victim.

3. Criminal kills someone, he is executed within 60 days of sentencing.

4. Drunk drivers who cause auto accident where no other person is injured, license revoked for life.

5. Drunk drivers who cause auto accident and injures someone else, license revoked for life and spends 1 day in jail for every dollar in medical costs incurred by the victims.

6. Child molesters, rapists, and child pornography possession - executed within 60 days of sentencing.

7. Rapists get castrated with a sharp tanto knife. No chemical "castration" allowed. A woman rapist gets ovaries surgically removed.

8. Arsonists get executed within 60 days of sentencing.

9. Terrorists get dropped out of an airplane over the ocean from a minimum altitude of 500 feet.

10. Kidnappers get 1 day in jail for every hour they kidnapped the victim.


This is common sense criminal control.

While I agree to most of this line of sentencing, for # 10, I think it should be more like 1 year of prison for each hour of kidnapping, with the 60 day death penalty for fatal kidnappings. Rapist should also get the 60 day death penalty, as that affects the victim for life.

 

[wabbit]

While I agree to most of this line of sentencing, for # 10, I think it should be more like 1 year of prison for each hour of kidnapping, with the 60 day death penalty for fatal kidnappings. Rapist should also get the 60 day death penalty, as that affects the victim for life.

Thanks for the correction. I overlooked some things, maybe because of my privilege.

 

[Growler215]

While I agree to most of this line of sentencing, for # 10, I think it should be more like 1 year of prison for each hour of kidnapping, with the 60 day death penalty for fatal kidnappings. Rapist should also get the 60 day death penalty, as that affects the victim for life.

I would like to see anyone given the death penalty becomes an organ donor (involuntary if necessary). A small repayment of the debt they owe society.

 

[Brychan]

I would like to see anyone given the death penalty becomes an organ donor (involuntary if necessary). A small repayment of the debt they owe society.

No, I've seen what happens when a person gets a serial killers body parts in at least three movies, it wasn't a good thing.

 

[lazarus]

No, I've seen what happens when a person gets a serial killers body parts in at least three movies, it wasn't a good thing.

Beyond that, I don't need the state to have any incentive to executing someone other than justice or to deter behavior.

I am personally against the death penalty only because we've shown we can't enforce it evenly or fairly and we have sure executed plenty of wrongly convicted people. That and it is more expensive to execute someone than just lock them up for life.

Is there some standard of evidence we could reach to be 100% sure we aren't executing wrongly convicted people? Probably. We don't have that now. Then if we did, we'd need to ensure all appeals could be exhausted pretty quickly to actually make it cheaper to execute them.

Which potentially weakens that "incontrovertible proof" standard.

On a moral level, if mistakes didn't happen (or intentionally ignoring evidence in some cases) and innocent people executed as a result...I've got no moral qualms about executing actually guilty people of serious crimes.

 

[Ponder_MD]

Actually, many people claim that life incarceration is more inhumane than being put to death. Lifer prison conditions are extremely harsh. These inmates aren't lounging back, watching cable TV like the general population.
I keep hearing that statistic: "It costs more to execute someone than to incarcerate them for life" but I never see anyone provide a cite for that.

Let's also remember- we shouldn't exercise the sentence that is fiscally expedient for the state, we should exercise the sentence that justice requires.

 

[lazarus]

Actually, many people claim that life incarceration is more inhumane than being put to death. Lifer prison conditions are extremely harsh. These inmates aren't lounging back, watching cable TV like the general population.
I keep hearing that statistic: "It costs more to execute someone than to incarcerate them for life" but I never see anyone provide a cite for that.

Let's also remember- we shouldn't exercise the sentence that is fiscally expedient for the state, we should exercise the sentence that justice requires.

Okay, if you need some cites on cost.

https://www.thebalance.com/comparing-the-costs-of-death-penalty-vs-life-in-prison-4689874

Sure, I don't disagree it might be more inhumane. But based on how long death row inmates are usually on death row, the conditions they are held in, having death hovering over the their head the entire time, unlikely it is less humane than lifers.

I'd take a wild guess though and those put to death and later PROVEN innocent (not reasonable doubt they might not have been guilty, but outright proven innocent) probably would have rather spent 20-30 in prison and then let out rather than been executed after 10.

A couple studies have tried to look at how many innocent people are on death row and the guesstimate is about 4% are likely innocent. That is based on prior exonerations after death.

So for every 25 guys we execute, likely 1 of them was innocent.

 

[Growler215]

I don't believe that most of the people who have been "exonerated" were actually innocent.

Including Rubin "Hurricane" Carter, and the "Central Park 5." Just because Hollywood lies in movies doesn't alter the real truth.

But, if it helps, I'll say only make murders whose guilt was proven by DNA evidence or confession into involuntary organ donors.

There are currently more prisoners serving life sentences than there are people on the national organ donor wait list.

 

[lazarus]

I don't believe that most of the people who have been "exonerated" were actually innocent.

Including Rubin "Hurricane" Carter, and the "Central Park 5." Just because Hollywood lies in movies doesn't alter the real truth.

But, if it helps, I'll say only make murders whose guilt was proven by DNA evidence or confession into involuntary organ donors.

There are currently more prisoners serving life sentences than there are people on the national organ donor wait list.

Certainly your right. I wasn't familiar with Hurricane Carter, but at least reading over the trail and evidence, it sure as heck was shaky eye witness testimony some of which relied on people trying to cop plea deals with crimes they had committed and also what appears to likely be planted evidence by the police to make the case stick.

The central park 5...you know someone else actually admitted to the crime? Right? The evidence against the youths was circumstantial at best. Basically police and prosecutors went after those kids because they are other kids were arrested that night and implicated them in some of the other crimes in central park that night.

There was never anything actually tying them to the rape and near murder. Either witnesses or evidence. Basically just horrible crime, these kids DID commit some crimes in the area, we need to prosecute SOMEONE for this horrible crime, oh, scape goats that don't seem remotely sympathetic.

Done.

 

[BeoBill]

...There was never anything actually tying them to the rape and near murder. Either witnesses or evidence. Basically just horrible crime, these kids DID commit some crimes in the area, we need to prosecute SOMEONE for this horrible crime, oh, scape goats that don't seem remotely sympathetic.

BTW, your "authoritative" article included all the costs of pretrial and trial-related activities. These are common to all criminal proceedings. So your costs are inflated. And I simply cannot believe that executing a 23 year old gang banger hitter after one appeal (say at age 25) is more expensive than housing, feeding and providing medical care for him until he dies of natural causes at 95. I'm a fan of logic.

 

[Growler215]

There was never anything actually tying them to the rape and near murder. Either witnesses or evidence. Basically just horrible crime, these kids DID commit some crimes in the area, we need to prosecute SOMEONE for this horrible crime, oh, scape goats that don't seem remotely sympathetic.

Done.

Well, there were their graphic confessions to participating in the attack...and one of them told a friend about holding the Central Park jogger down. The police knew from the DNA that none of them was the actual rapist which was why they were charged as accomplices. Which despite Netflix's best effort I still believe they were.

 

[lazarus]

Well, there were their graphic confessions to participating in the attack...and one of them told a friend about holding the Central Park jogger down. The police knew from the DNA that none of them was the actual rapist which was why they were charged as accomplices. Which despite Netflix's best effort I still believe they were.

You mean the coerced confessions after hours of interrogation and promises of going lightly for ratting out the others? Or the book thrown at them if they didn’t?

They were all kids.

I’ve never heard or seen any confession to a friend.

The DNA was linked to the actual guy who confessed to the crime years later. Who didn’t implicate any accomplices and there is no evidence the actual rapist knew any of the boys ever.

 

[lazarus]

BTW, your "authoritative" article included all the costs of pretrial and trial-related activities. These are common to all criminal proceedings. So your costs are inflated. And I simply cannot believe that executing a 23 year old gang banger hitter after one appeal (say at age 25) is more expensive than housing, feeding and providing medical care for him until he dies of natural causes at 95. I'm a fan of logic.

It would only be cheaper if we change the legal system and get rid of all of the mandatory appeals, due process protections, etc.

Which how the risk of wrongfully convicting and executing someone.

We can make it WAY cheaper for sure. But the rate of executing innocent people will also go up. I am sure it wouldn’t sky rocket, but we might be executing a couple more per hundred than we are now.

What are some innocent lives worth? Especially when we are taking state sanctioned killing? How do we determine when there might be sufficient evidence we can do away with most of the due process just to expedite things?

Plenty of innocent people convicted of murder aren’t exonerated till several appeals or even decades later. A lot of them turns out police manufactured evidence. Sometimes it was bad witnesses. A lot of reasons why. Even cases that seemed air tight.

And of course we execute plenty of really bad people who sure as hell were guilty as sin.

I’d rather lock up the guilty instead and give time and the system the chance to prove the innocent out.

 

[BeoBill]

It would only be cheaper if we change the legal system and get rid of all of the mandatory appeals, due process protections, etc.

Which how the risk of wrongfully convicting and executing someone...

You get these with any serious felony conviction. And you will as long as lawyers charge money for providing their services. I stand by my statement.