Can we get a list of CCW holders?

[Big Dog]

I know that if we had them we would want that information kept out of the public's eye and we were appalled that some papers in NY ran lists of CCP holders BUT this is the People's Republik of MD and it is past time to fight with fire. A list would show who has them and we could determine if they were likely to have G&S (as defined by the Stasi) or if their permit is because of political connections. Would be nice to know if the people on the handgun board have one or if the people on the approval (denial) board have one and why they have one.

I know one category of CCP is people who are in lines of work where they affect people's lives (judges, lawyers, etc) BUT O'Moron and his minions claim the gun laws in MD will prevent gun crime so why do these people have to worry about being confronted with a gun?

Would be nice to know who has one and how or why they got it. If we could put some sunlight on that list it would really be interesting. I am a nurse not a lawyer so any legal types here know how we can LEGALLY get that list?

 

[hvymax]

I believe MD has a law protecting the list per se but a specified FOIA request may get an answer.

 

[Big Dog]

I will have to look into how to go about that. It will likely be denied or redacted. However, I wonder if some legal claim can be made showing harm in a denail and requesting the list to see if discrimination was involved...

 

[Mr H]

IIRC, PIA requests can be made for specific individuals...

But keep in mind that this sort of release was something we fought back this session.

 

[Sundancer]

I think SB281 prevents release.

I believe release of this info is harnful to the folks on the list as it makes them targets and violates their privacy.

That being said I am sure as with everything there are undeserving folks getting bene's.

 

[Big Dog]

I know we fought it and I know that in all usual circumstances we would oppose releasing it BUT we have a serious issue here regarding the possibility of political favoritism and special people (which the Stasi denies) so how else can we find out?

Maybe one of the politicians here can get a shortened list of only the politically connected. I would love to see Frosh on that list or some of the other anti gunners...

 

[Norton]

According to the MSP, there is only one member of either judicial committee (as of 2011) who has a permit, and he's on our side.

You can't get this information as a data dump, and that is as it should be.

 

[Big Dog]

And according to the MSP they have a fair way of doing permits. IOW, I do not trust them. As an aside, the IRS claims it does not target people or groups and the feds say they don't listen to you and Maryland says red light and speed cameras are for safety and not revenue...

However, how do you get the data dump? I do not think the stuff should be released to the general public but in a lawsuit or as part of an investigation by an independent source. Sort of an audit to verify the integrity of the process and the veracity of the claims...

 

[spclopr8tr]

I don not have a MD CCW permit. But if I did, I would NOT want to be on a publicly released list.

 

[Norton]

However, how do you get the data dump?

You can't. That's the point.

I do not think the stuff should be released to the general public but in a lawsuit or as part of an investigation by an independent source. Sort of an audit to verify the integrity of the process and the veracity of the claims...

Once that genie is out of the bottle, you presume that you can control how it is used. You do not have the right to release someone else's private information.

The ends do not justify the means.

 

[Big Dog]

I misread what you wrote about the data dump earlier.

So are you saying that having some independent source audit the process is allowing the genie out of the bottle? This is like saying that the IRS should not be audited because they hold personal info. I don't think this should be a public release and admit my original post was less than articulate about that.

By using we I only mean how can the people verify the process is on the up and up. I do not trust any public official who says that it is so.

I agree with Reagan, trust but verify. As far as the ends justifying the means the means is only to have an independent source verify and release statistical info such as how many there are and how many were based on other than the G&S we are held to.

There is no release of private information if the names are not used, only the person investigating would see that. It is no different than using medical records for research of a disease so long as private information is not used (and this is legal).

I do not see a conflict in this method. Certainly a few people have access to the info and the info has not been made public so a bonded auditor should be a trusted source to only report the stats and not the names.

Though I will admit that I would not be upset if some anti gunner were outed as having a permit. Like if one of them had to use the gun and it made the news...

 

[teratos]

I don't even like the idea that you can get the info with a PIA request for a specific individual. Should you get the personal info of someone who is exercising any other Constitutional Right? We already know the system sucks. We also know that people who fit a specific profile can and will get a MD permit. No secret I have one. The process was exceedingly easy.

 

[Engine4]

I'll bet Vinnie has one.......

 

[swinokur]

I think SB281 prevents release.

I believe release of this info is harnful to the folks on the list as it makes them targets and violates their privacy.

That being said I am sure as with everything there are undeserving folks getting bene's.

Correct.

SB 281

Article – State Government 13

10–616. 14

(a) Unless otherwise provided by law, a custodian shall deny inspection of a 15
public record, as provided in this section. 16

(V) (1) EXCEPT AS PROVIDED IN PARAGRAPHS (2) AND (3) OF THIS 17
SUBSECTION, A CUSTODIAN SHALL DENY INSPECTION OF ALL RECORDS OF A 18
PERSON AUTHORIZED TO: 19

(I) SELL, PURCHASE, RENT, OR TRANSFER A REGULATED 20
FIREARM UNDER TITLE 5, SUBTITLE 1 OF THE PUBLIC SAFETY ARTICLE; OR 21

(II) CARRY, WEAR, OR TRANSPORT A HANDGUN UNDER 22
TITLE 5, SUBTITLE 3 OF THE PUBLIC SAFETY ARTICLE. 23

(2) A CUSTODIAN SHALL ALLOW INSPECTION OF FIREARM OR 24
HANDGUN RECORDS BY: 25

(I) THE INDIVIDUAL NAMED IN THE RECORD; OR 26

(II) THE ATTORNEY OF RECORD OF THE INDIVIDUAL NAMED 27
IN THE RECORD. 28

(3) THE PROVISIONS OF THIS SUBSECTION MAY NOT BE 29
CONSTRUED TO PROHIBIT THE DEPARTMENT OF STATE POLICE OR THE 30 62 SENATE BILL 281


DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY AND CORRECTIONAL SERVICES FROM 1
ACCESSING FIREARM OR HANDGUN RECORDS IN THE PERFORMANCE OF THAT 2
DEPARTMENT’S OFFICIAL DUTY. 3

 

[Jakedasnake]

I don not have a MD CCW permit. But if I did, I would NOT want to be on a publicly released list.

What he said X's 1,000!

 

[dblas]

According to the MSP, there is only one member of either judicial committee (as of 2011) who has a permit, and he's on our side.

You can't get this information as a data dump, and that is as it should be.

Actually, I believe there are two (one has a day job as a Sheriffs Deputy), both share the same office and both sit side by side on the same committee...

 

[dblas]

I'll bet Vinnie has one.......

Actually, he doesn't...

As for the OP, you are aware that MSP has started to put out the numbers of requests, breaking them out by section (PI, Security Guard, etc.), to include denials? And that SB281 requires them to do so?

 

[Big Dog]

There is a difference between public release and a certified audit to ensure the process is as described. Only non PII info need be released.

 

[spclopr8tr]

A list would show who has them and we could determine if they were likely to have G&S (as defined by the Stasi) or if their permit is because of political connections. Would be nice to know if the people on the handgun board have one or if the people on the approval (denial) board have one and why they have one.

Can you clarify exactly what the audit is expected to reveal? Why would it be nice to know if the handgun board members have permits? If you were on the board would you not fear for your personal safety? That would be a G&S reason to have one. How do you determine if the reason permits are issued is due to "political connections"? You think our politicians don't receive threats? That would be a G&S reason to have one. I just don't see how any of your objectives could be satisfied with an "audit". It would satisfy idle curiosity, but it would have absolutely no bearing on MD's refusal of our 2A rights. The objective is make MD a "shall issue" state rather than a "may issue" state. Everything else is just a distraction.

 

[Johnthetoolguy]

When I had a carry permit in the 80's, it was made clear to me by MSP that I was not to talk about it to anyone. I was not to show it around or use it as ID except to LE if I was carrying at the time.
It was a big secret back then. I would not have wanted my name available to the public. Screw that!