Can We Prevent a Second Civil War? (FYI)

[Jim Sr]

Can We Prevent a Second Civil War?​

"I would assert that every single one of these very determined armed Americans has some idea, deep in his or her heart, as to what their personal 'line in the sand' actually is. When it comes to this amorphous, mostly low profile, group, the hammer is cocked. These folks are getting to be known as the 'Three Percenters'." ...

 

[Lex Armarum]

I disagree with the author's premise at the outset. The next civil war will be pro-government control vs. liberty in its myriad forms.

 

[jtarpley59]

I disagree with the author's premise at the outset. The next civil war will be pro-government control vs. liberty in its myriad forms.

 

[Schwabe]

Sorry, but there is also no notion of the devaluation of the Dollar in this.

I believe the trigger will be the collapse of our economic system and the lines will be between those who paid into the system and those who receive from the system. Those who support big GOV and those who want to be left alone.

Once the Dollar becomes worthless, the GOV will not be able to sustain current entitlement programs, military spending and paying its foriegn debt.

As 50% of the population already do not pay into the system and receive they will continue to support the increase of revenues from the people who already are contributing. Anybody who even suggests that we should have a balanced budget is an extremist and whacko.

This will force more and more from the contributing side to the just receiving side just because they cannot even satisfy their taxation dues.

When people lose their jobs, everything they once owned and lose their loved ones because of divorce over the finacial peril than they have nothing else to lose.

You wil slowly see more and more people "snap" in the news. Fly their plane into a IRS building, shoot up a police station, blow-up an insurance building, burn a bank etc.... but there will already be a large group who feel the same (because insurance companies first denied their claim and then made it hard and costly for them to collect at all, then when you made one claim they drop you, banks withholding your deposit an extra day to be able to charge you a $35 fee for a withdrawel that would have been covered, tax exemptions and entitlement programs they do not qualify for but would need to be able to keep their home because thy earn too much ... etc) and who would like to do the same but are just not prone to violance .... and keep paying because it is easier and "safer" to help, keep and protect their family than to pick up arms ... all you need then is one spark to ignite it ..... to push people over the edge ....

 

[JOBU]

I disagree with the author's premise at the outset. The next civil war will be pro-government control vs. liberty in its myriad forms.

You. Cigar. On. Me.

 

[Inigoes]

What's the best thing about the American way, is that every 2-4-6 years the system is setup to refresh through the ballot box (a peaceful periodic revolution). Eventhough the incumbants are trying their best to hold onto the job, they could effectively be removed.

When it's time to grab the firearm to replace the tyrannical government (aka the nuclear option), the outcome is more uncertain based upon the failings of the uprising leader(s).

 

[Les Gawlik]

If there are hostilities, it will be started as a false flag/Reichstag fire event. You know how the Tea Party is portrayed in the media. It will be a very easy sell. And then a grateful nation will welcome the restoration of peace and order (and tyranny).

 

[frozencesium]

I think America as we know it, the defender of freedom and liberty of the cold war is gone. I think (and hope) that a shooting match can and should be avoided. Change will come, but I hope our struggle ends up more like Russia where the transition happened without large scale fighting.

That said, I don't think Russia is a good model and isn't a bastion of freedom, but they are certainly better off economically (and freedom wise) than they were, at least in some degree.

There will be political upheaval when the economy eventually collapses under it's own weight, but I have faith in the goodness of the American people that we won't have to resort to violence to implement the economic reforms necessary. I even believe we can keep the Constitution intact, with only perhaps a few amendments (term limits, balanced budget amendment, etc) during such a trying time.

 

[GNLaFrance]

FDR's policies deepened and extended the depression of 1929-1943, which ended after he maneuvered the US into WW2.

 

[jaypark]

I disagree with the author's premise at the outset. The next civil war will be pro-government control vs. liberty in its myriad forms.

you cigar and JD on me... Jobu is welcome as long as he brings the funny voodoo doll

 

[MDFF2008]

The constitution has withstood 200 years of trouble and trials.

I feel like we have been in bad situations before, we came through the civil war, we came through the great depression, we survived two world wars.

I'm not ready to give up just yet. I know a lot of people have given up and are ready, I still have optimism we can do something.

 

[jpk1md]

The constitution has withstood 200 years of trouble and trials.

That begs the question....is the Constitution actually being followed today?

Its tough to ignore the simple fact that large portions of it are ignored on a regular basis.

 

[WeaponsCollector]

That begs the question....is the Constitution actually being followed today?

Its tough to ignore the simple fact that large portions of it are ignored on a regular basis.

Don't like the fact that our Constitution is largely ignored?
Then support someone like Ron Paul.
Like it or not this really is our only hope for a Constitutional future.

 

[jpk1md]

FDR's policies deepened and extended the depression of 1929-1943

A couple of guys from UCLA named Harold L. Cole and Lee E. Ohanian came out with a piece showing that the New Deal actually prolonged and worsened things rather than solving the economic issues of the 1930's

Its actually a decent read for anyone interested in dispelling the mythology of Keynsian Economics and the false notion that the New Deal pulled the US out of the Great Depression.

http://hlcole.bol.ucla.edu/NewDealucla.pdf

 

[jpk1md]

Don't like the fact that our Constitution is largely ignored?
Then support someone like Ron Paul.
Like it or not this really is our only hope for a Constitutional future.

You do realize that you're largely preaching to the choir on this point right?.

Personally I would prefer his son Rand but its a no brainer when you put RP up against a Romney, Huckster or Sontorum.

 

[n00dles]

The constitution has withstood 200 years of trouble and trials.

I feel like we have been in bad situations before, we came through the civil war, we came through the great depression, we survived two world wars.

I'm not ready to give up just yet. I know a lot of people have given up and are ready, I still have optimism we can do something.

That begs the question....is the Constitution actually being followed today?

Its tough to ignore the simple fact that large portions of it are ignored on a regular basis.

I agree with both of your statements, this great nation has faced many seemingly insurmountable obstacles before and our insatiable desire for freedom has always prevailed.

That being said I think that while the vast majority of Americans are good, freedom loving people, they are also ignorant of what is really on going politically. Most people believe what is "reported" in the evening news.

Luckily, I believe the failed economic policies of our Dear Leader have the politically ignorant at least understanding that what he is doing is impacting them directly through the gas pump and grocery store. This unfortunately does not mean that they will dig a little deeper and come to understand that The Chairman is doing all of this intentionally.

My prediction is that we will end up just like the UK. Liberals will screw things up so badly that the people will then elect Conservatives to fix everything and then when things are back to normal another more liberal idiot will come along and screw things up worse. The pendulum will swing left then right.

The only hope is that mainstream media will disappear thereby no longer providing cover for the socialists.

On the other hand, if it comes to combat the libs will need the US Military on their side as they do not own guns. I have a feeling the Military will decline to help.

 

[Lex Armarum]

The constitution has withstood 200 years of trouble and trials.

I feel like we have been in bad situations before, we came through the civil war, we came through the great depression, we survived two world wars.

I'm not ready to give up just yet. I know a lot of people have given up and are ready, I still have optimism we can do something.

Ummm, your argument is a non sequitur. Sure, our Constitution has endured 200 years but not because there haven't been civil wars and rebellions as you mention.

So our constitution will presumably survive - at least, that was not the OPs question - but can we avert another civil war/bloody insurgency? I don't know if we can.

Entering into a civil war is not "giving up" just engaging in assertive negotiations with our foes over the direction and form of this country. If the libtards win, however, I fear the death of our Constitution is not out of the question.

I think - and Thomas Sowell has broached this topic too - we're going to see a migration of freedom-loving "producers" (i.e. those who are productive, tax-paying members of society) to other countries that are demonstrably more liberty-oriented. As the tax-base shrinks and the entitlement party screams louder for more, I believe the strain on this nation will break the ties of national affection and tear asunder our social fabric so much so that armed conflict in an insurgent fashion will be unavoidable.

The Constitution will remain, it will then be a question of whose interpretation of that august document we adhere to.


(Janis Joplin wrote, "Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose." When the "producers" have nothing left to lose - and that time is rapidly approaching - then we shall see whether we are a country consisting of mice or men.)

(BTW, screw Ron Paul, vote Palin [if she runs])

 

[boricuamaximus]

I think America as we know it, the defender of freedom and liberty of the cold war is gone. I think (and hope) that a shooting match can and should be avoided. Change will come, but I hope our struggle ends up more like Russia where the transition happened without large scale fighting.

That said, I don't think Russia is a good model and isn't a bastion of freedom, but they are certainly better off economically (and freedom wise) than they were, at least in some degree.

There will be political upheaval when the economy eventually collapses under it's own weight, but I have faith in the goodness of the American people that we won't have to resort to violence to implement the economic reforms necessary. I even believe we can keep the Constitution intact, with only perhaps a few amendments (term limits, balanced budget amendment, etc) during such a trying time.

Kinda hard to do when we dont have people with the 32lb brass cojones like Putin. He's the reason why Russia is not a broken country with constant in-fighting.

 

[WeaponsCollector]

....BTW, screw Ron Paul, vote Palin [if she runs])

Wow.

 

[Lex Armarum]

I think America as we know it, the defender of freedom and liberty of the cold war is gone. I think (and hope) that a shooting match can and should be avoided. Change will come, but I hope our struggle ends up more like Russia where the transition happened without large scale fighting.

That said, I don't think Russia is a good model and isn't a bastion of freedom, but they are certainly better off economically (and freedom wise) than they were, at least in some degree.

There will be political upheaval when the economy eventually collapses under it's own weight, but I have faith in the goodness of the American people that we won't have to resort to violence to implement the economic reforms necessary. I even believe we can keep the Constitution intact, with only perhaps a few amendments (term limits, balanced budget amendment, etc) during such a trying time.

I'm sure you understand, but I want to point out, that the current and future battles will not be economic in nature although that is the terminology that is and will be used (along with a healthy helping of accusations of psychological ailments) by detractors and supporters of freedom. It will be a battle over ideology - the distribution of resources (who and how, the determining factors of how to distribute resources and who receives these resources) - much like our Revolution and and Civil War were.

Right now, there is a surge in the ideology that government can best determine the distribution of resources and who distributes them/receives them. The difference for us is and has always been centralization of power versus the balancing of powers.

See here: http://www.ushistory.org/DECLARATION/ (no copyright infringement here )

IN CONGRESS, JULY 4, 1776
The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America

When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. — Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.

He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.

He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their Public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.

He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.

He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected, whereby the Legislative Powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.

He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.

He has obstructed the Administration of Justice by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary Powers.

He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.

He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.

He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil Power.

He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:

For quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:

For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:

For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences:

For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies

For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:

For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.

He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.

He has plundered our seas, ravaged our coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.

He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.

He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.

He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.

In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince, whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.

Nor have We been wanting in attentions to our British brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends.

We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these united Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States, that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. — And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor.

How much of that revered and instructive document is applicable or near imminent in modern times?